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A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

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Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#191

Post by AlotOfReading »

nemomarx wrote: post #160
AlotOfReading wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short answer: it's hard to fully say, but most people believe that the holocene is a lower bound on this sort of thing. I'll try to explain, but keep in mind that I'm trying to massively simplify a huge field of open questions. The fundamental assumption underlying most archaeology is that changes in material culture broadly reflect people reacting to the world around them in intelligent ways. Most archaeologists the…

Thank you for this thoughtful explanation Do you think recent findings about early human sites on other continents (Americas etc) change any of this, or does that still mostly fit with our understanding? My layman's knowledge is that the exact date of when people reached certain landmasses shifts around based on new evidence but I'm not sure if that's an important part of the timeline generally

No, those are different topics. The current evidence for the initial peopling of the Americas is particularly problematic because we don't have a great narrative for how those dates could work.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#192

Post by cryptonector »

jstanley wrote: post #150
cryptonector wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These Tepe sites give credence to advanced civilization existing before the last ice age. Before the last glacial period == 100,000 year ago. This is 12,000 years ago. If we assume (big big assumption here) that there's only really a single unbroken line of civilization, and also assume (big big assumption) roughly exponential growth till now, then no, 100kya would be too long ago. But those two assumptions are not…

~12000 years ago refers to the Younger Dryas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

I'm aware.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#193

Post by throwmeaway222 »

mjd wrote: post #111
throwmeaway222 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's making fun of historians that have really dumb reasons for declaring human culture is one way or another because of event X but it doesn't pass a sniff test. In this example, mirrors don't need to exist because people can look at other people (or more simply feel their own face). It was a 40% funny joke.

Not a bad guess! According to this report on my desk, it is 61%±2% funny.

I reran the numbers and it did come in at 59.5%

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#194

Post by thebruce87m »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #49
bee_rider wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Archaeologists generally aren't that computer-savvy. Why throw interdisciplinary shade? > I haven't seen any indications of paint residues on the pillars, but we know that many of the statues in these enclosures were also painted bright colors that would be missed by a digital reconstruction. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? If there’s no indication of paint residues, the…

It's not interdisciplinary. I'm an archaeologist, albeit not practicing these days. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? Yes, but the point is that we don't know a lot of the context around these layer III T-pillars to make informed choices in depicting them. For clarification, I'm using the GT stratigraphy because I haven't looked up the KT chart. But just to highlight some kn…

> Plus, the relevant team may not even have a LIDAR scanner to do that properly as that's fairly specialist equipment.

There’s a good chance you have a LiDAR Scanner in your pocket right now.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#195

Post by pwillia7 »

acuozzo wrote: post #44
pwillia7 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got pretty into this alt archaeology stuff and eventually had to move away from it. I totally agree that the tepes challenge our timeline of when humans made cities and whatnot, but so much of their arguments is the perfect fit of stones or how flat stones are and saying it _must_ be done by modern tools. I think they have left out how much you can get done from a construction standpoint when you have forced labor…

> I got pretty into this alt archaeology stuff Links?

Here's the other one that I just remembered -- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2Stn8atEra7SMdPWyQoSLA

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#196

Post by AlotOfReading »

thebruce87m wrote: post #194
AlotOfReading wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not interdisciplinary. I'm an archaeologist, albeit not practicing these days. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? Yes, but the point is that we don't know a lot of the context around these layer III T-pillars to make informed choices in depicting them. For clarification, I'm using the GT stratigraphy because I haven't looked up the KT chart. But just to highlight some kn…

> Plus, the relevant team may not even have a LIDAR scanner to do that properly as that's fairly specialist equipment. There’s a good chance you have a LiDAR Scanner in your pocket right now.

iPhone LIDARs don't have enough resolution for this and they work a lot better inside than outside.

There's also an interesting point about phone use in the field. It's surprisingly difficult. I haven't played around with lidar apps because my (personal) phone choice doesn't have the relevant hardware, but I wouldn't take it for granted that they work offline or there's app store access to install them.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#197

Post by teleforce »

Apparently Karahan Tepe is the sister site of the originally discovered Göbekli Tepe, the oldest temple site in world [1]. It's also claimed by some archeologists as the very first site of human civilization [2].

In Göbekli Tepe not only human faces, they are also many stone craving of animals or better known as Noah's Beast [3].

Both historical sites Göbekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe, are not very far from Mount Ararat and Mount Judi, they are within a few hundreds of km in Turkey where Mount Judi is the closer of the two.

Mount Ararat is claimed by most Bible scholars as the site of the landing of Noah's Ark after the great flood [4].

According to Quran scholars, however, the actual site of the Noah's Ark resting place is Mount Judi as the word Judi is clearly and specifically mentioned in the Quran in the story of prophet Noah, inside Surah Hud 11:44 [5],[6].

In the Bible however, no exact mention of the name of actual site, and the Mount Ararat is just a mere speculation by the Bible Scholars based on story of legends [4].

[1] Göbekli Tepe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

[2] The Oldest Temple in The World and Its Mistery:

https://archaeotravel.eu/the-oldest-temple-in-the-world-and-...

[3] Noah's Beasts Released on the Hills of Göbekli Tepe:

https://archaeotravel.eu/noahs-beasts-released-on-the-hills-...

[4] Mount Ararat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Ararat

[5] Mount Judi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Judi

[6] Surah Hud 11:44:

https://quran.com/hud/44

And it was said, “O earth! Swallow up your water. And O sky! Withhold ˹your rain˺.” The floodwater receded and the decree was carried out. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and it was said, “Away with the wrongdoing people!”

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#198

Post by itopaloglu83 »

clickety_clack wrote: post #50
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, some of it is due to lack of safety etc. must I must say the majority of it is the complete lack of competence in modern times because it’s now being built by normal folks. I assume it was a limited number of people how knew how to make things and they kept roaming around setting new sites etc. Similar to bridge engineers etc. most of what they make just disappears in the background but they keep building things…

It’s not lack of competence. There is an unbelievable weight of regulation in construction now. It would probably take 2 years of planning consultation just to get the idea approved. Then, each facet of the design would have to be coordinated and iterated between several different specialist teams and contractors, with the tree of contractors increasing as each layer of design takes shape. At the end, you also have t…

Yeah, definitely regulations affected the effectiveness, but also good things happened as well, we have a lot more power tools to use and we're not likely to lose our head just because we didn't deliver a job on time.

We have a lot more infrastructure around now, so much that we don't even see the wonders that tame the nature and make it comfortable for us.

Re: A 12,000-year-old obelisk with a human face was found in Karahan Tepe

#199

Post by forgingahead »

hinkley wrote: post #129
forgingahead wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> before I realized people thought he is a kook But what is your own opinion?

I didn’t listen long enough to get to his really fringe stuff.

But why would you call it fringe then, if you didn't hear it yourself?
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