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The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

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Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#191

Post by Tichy »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #115
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #62

I look at this and can't believe Apple wanted to ship with this. And I mean that literally, not incredulously. I believe Apple wants to be in carol of its mapping future, but this product isn't ready yet, and I don't think Apple is so delusional to not be able to see that. So that makes me wonder what happened in contract negotiations with Google to force it out. Did Google flat-out say "No"? Seems unlikely. Was it j…

You are probably correct. However if you look at Google's moves in the maps API with respect to charging money the simplest explanation is that Apple and Google could not come to terms on the price for access and so Apple went with 'plan B'. Given the pain Apple is causing Google in its patent assault I don't doubt for a minute that the senior management at Google would have any regrets about 'losing' the Apple map b…

I really doubt that they charge Apple for shipping Google Maps on their phone. They want as many people as possible to use the app.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#192

Post by grey-area »

rburhum wrote: post #155
rmc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenStreetMap would have more accurate information about the locations of towns etc.

OSM doesn't do elevation. OSM doesn't do geocoding. OSM doesn't do routing. OSM doesn't do 3D. OSM doesn't have a cleaned up dataset of Points of Interest. I love OSM and I use it every day - but I know what it does, what it is good for and what it is not meant to do. Getting a list of towns for the entire world is easy. Solving the issues in the listed by the OP's tumbler requires data that OSM does not have.

OSM doesn't do 3D

For most people the 3D is an amusing toy, not really useful. I'd be happy without it frankly.

OSM doesn't do elevation

See 3D above

OSM doesn't do geocoding

They have data for searching on street addresses and towns, and the data is available separately for postcodes etc (TomTom for example will have sold a solution for this to Apple, so they could have gone down that route). Google has this down, as you'd expect given their search expertise, and Apple would have done better to pay them at least for access to this service if nothing else as it's a complicated area.

OSM doesn't have a cleaned up dataset of Points of Interest

Yelp does, and that's who Apple are using for POIs

One other point you didn't mention is that OSM doesn't do satellite data (their stuff is from Yahoo isn't it?), so that is a big area Apple would have had to sort out from another provider.

While you're right that there is no one-stop shop for mapping services, and it's a really complex area (i.e. just choosing OSM would not solve all these probs, as you point out) I do think Apple have missed a chance to form a symbiotic relationship with OSM and enhance the quality of their maps with an open process rather than relying on the often out of date commercial data available and having to either fork the commercial data from this point on, or merge changes. Dealing with all these fixes will suck up a lot of time they could spend on improving the app itself.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#193

Post by tijs »

akc wrote: post #162
tijs wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the Netherlands and it seems to work like a charm so far. the whole upheaval sounds like an internet pile-on to me.

Tijs, come to NY some time to see how bad it can get. :-)

Planning to, but i bet they've fixed it by the time i'll get there.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#194

Post by sidcool »

tdfx wrote: post #183
[deleted] wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

When you get home from work, please read through this exchange again and see if it makes any sense to you. Grandparent poster was just trying to help you out.

Sorry guys, screwed it over. My bad.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#195

Post by incongruity »

shinratdr wrote: post #125
incongruity wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been virtually printing money with the iOS products because they consistently, if incrementally, offered better and better products. Products that, for most users, offered a genuinely good to great experience and products that challenged the market to be better – far better – than they had before. This, as far as I can tell, is the first really big snafu in the user experience and that may be worrisome. The…

> The thing is – and what the apple fans are all afraid of (but few may admit) is that this isn't just a stumble, but rather, the first major indicator of what a post-Steve Jobs Apple product experience is like. I'm not afraid of it because it's bullshit. Where do we lay the blame for the YouTube app then? Or the huge engineering problems with the original MacBook Air? When Steve Jobs tried to kill iTunes for Windows…

I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

The first macbook air, despite engineering issues, was widely viewed as an amazing step forward for portable computing and it, echoing the iPhone, pushed the industry forward considerably.

Say what you will, it was still a major success and yet another feather in Job's cap, as viewed by the general public.

Don't think for a second that I'm saying Jobs was perfect in any way – but there is a general vision of Apple under his leadership as being the golden goose – Apple hasn't had a huge public fumble in the last decade that has been able to make its core customers question its ability to deliver ever increasingly good user experiences.

There have indeed been mistakes, but none of them have seemed to really injure the giant that is Apple. That generalized success has largely been credited to Jobs – with strong help from Cook and Ive. With Jobs' passing, it has been a real question as to whether Apple can keep that string of big successes and minor, if any, failures going.

What I'm suggesting is that if not fixed quickly, the maps experience downgrade will be viewed as a sign that post-Jobs Apple isn't the same and that may be dangerous for Apple.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#196

Post by redler »

CoachRufus87 wrote: post #54
acomjean wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a business decision. Apple probably decided that having core phone functionality in the hands of a competitor wasn't such a good idea. Also Apple users were helping the competition with all the information they were uploading about geographic data. When the original iphone shipped with google maps (and the Google CEO on hand), Apple and Google were partners, now not so much.

Do you think Google will eventually release a 3rd party maps app?

Google using Maps exclusivity as a lever to drive the sales of Android hardware doesn't really make sense. Google's goal is to place Google properties in front of as many engaged eyes as possible.

Sure, there's a cohort of iPhone users at the margin who may now choose Android over this issue (and we're hearing from some of them in this thread). But there's no leverage Google can apply with Maps that will significantly diminish the growing bulk of tens of millions of iPhone users. And Google surely wants that vast army of iPhone users to be engaged users of Google properties, including Maps and related features. Google Maps on iPhone is a net win for Google, and does nothing to diminish Android, where Maps will always be one step ahead and better integrated.

Of course Apple may have something to say about Google Maps for iOS 6...

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#197

Post by zimpenfish »

Mythbusters wrote: post #120
Maascamp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Apple gets a pass here. If they are forcing users onto their product it had better be competitive, no matter how hard it is. Microsoft got so such pass with WP7 and that was an entirely new OS/platform!

talking of pass, you should checkout the new nokia maps on the lumia. It's f awesome!!!

...but faked.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#198

Post by jpdoctor »

uxp wrote: post #124
jpdoctor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wrong or non existent hospital. FWIW: I can see that turning into a lawsuit.

Google's Maps TOS states[1]: 4. Content in the Products. (a) Map data, traffic, directions, and related Content are provided for planning purposes only. You may find that weather conditions, construction projects, closures, or other events may cause road conditions or directions to differ from the map results. You should exercise judgment in your use of this Content. And Apple's iOS6 License agreement states[2]: 5. S…

> There's basically no difference between the two.

1. There's more to contract law than reading the contract. 2. There is a huge difference: Google gets the placement right, Apple does not.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#199

Post by tayl0r »

headShrinker wrote: post #77
smikhanov wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple will have something much better in one year It certainly will be better but I'm not holding my breath about Apple maps surpassing Google Maps any time soon. Google bought a Rasmussen brothers' company (what eventually became Google Maps) in 2004. That's eight years of product development, data collection, storage and refining -- all at Google's pace. Will Apple find some shortcut to compress this time in one-tw…

It wasn't until about 3 years ago that Google Maps became the polished app that it is now, ie: vector maps, 3d building maps, tilting, etc. (Google has been in the map business for 10 years now?) Apple has a lot of catching up to do but it's very good at trudging ahead regardless of customers complaints until the product is completely polished and competitive.

Are the features like vector maps, 3d buildings, and tilting only on Android? I've only used Google Maps on iOS.

Re: The Amazing iOS 6 Maps

#200

Post by tayl0r »

insickness wrote: post #147

While we are ragging on maps... I live in New York City. Sometimes Google doesn't put the street names on all the streets. I often have to scroll left or right or out to see what street it's on. Obviously you can't list the names on every street when it is zoomed out, but even when there aren't more than 4 or 5 streets on the map, the street names still don't appear. It's like they'd rather list local restaurants tha…

Happens to me all the time here in Berlin. Very frustrating. Sometimes I have to scroll 2 screens away before I find the street labelled.
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