Social anxiety isn't about being liked • Hacker News Board

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#191

Post by smcin » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 6:26 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #71

xivzgrev wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

> And I could not think of anything. I've identified two approaches to this situation. One is to take the insult graciously, as though it's feedback: "Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!" "Oh! Thanks for the reminder." (adjust the position of your head, as appropriate for your extremely large and dangerous nose) --- The other is to take whatever they said, and exaggerate it. This produces really good…

"one-upping"

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#192

Post by watwut » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:08 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #12

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

I would point out that male on male bullying absolutely exists. Sometimes were sever one. It also frequently involves mocking the other guy and no it is not friendly.

Sometimes those women are actually making very accurate observation about relationships of involved guys.

It is not exactly rare when "it was just a joke" is entirely dishonest and when went on was actually attempt to put down another guy.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#193

Post by watwut » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:14 PM UTC

lucasban wrote: post #161

bunderbunder wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you cause a car wreck, you failed at driving. It doesn't necessarily make you a bad driver in and of itself - everybody makes mistakes - but if you also refuse to acknowledge and own your error then that certainly suggests a lack of competence. If you ship code that blows up in production, you failed at programming. It doesn't necessarily make you a bad programmer in and of itself - everybody makes mistakes - but…

I mostly agree but I think the nuance with comedy is that there can be a mismatch in audiences, sometimes the others participating are not the intended audience, but are instead used as props. In that case it could be successful comedy independently of if they enjoyed it. Whether or not that’s ethical in a given situation is a separate question.

> the others participating are not the intended audience, but are instead used as props.

Then it is frequently just a public bullying of a victim. Bullying can be really fun and bonding activity for bullies. That is why many of them do it.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#194

Post by watwut » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:16 PM UTC

nuancebydefault wrote: post #121

dkarl wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... if you're fat, and your friends call you fat, they mean it. You're fat. They just don't mean for it to hurt, and that's the wholesome part. Every time they call you fat, they're showing you that it's okay with them that you're fat. If you're fat, and your friends tell you you're not fat, then to me that implies that the truth is too awful to say, but for your sake they'll pretend you're a different person. Whic…

Recently a lady was telling me that she wasn't taken seriously. When a male colleague proposed something that she proposed years ago, people suddenly accepted it, she said. I explained her about 'implicit pecking order' in company culture and 'he is taller'. Then she said "yeah i'm short". Then I said yes but you are perfect the way you are, and I think she appreciated that.

Basically the company is sexist anf that is ok?

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#195

Post by watwut » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:18 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #107

dkarl wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's two different kinds of logic. The stereotypically male way makes sense to me: you take the weapons that could be used against someone and make them harmless. If you're fat, your friends call you fat, and you're like, hey, they know I'm fat, it's established that I'm fat, and they're my friends anyway! Being fat is fine! It takes all the fear out of it. In my perception, the stereotypically female way is, if you'…

"Men bond by saying nasty things they don’t mean. Women bond by saying nice things they don’t mean." I think there is some truth to this old saying. If so, it would make sense that both sides find the way of the other side a bit off-putting.

I have seen men say nasty things they absolutely meant and bond by bullying other people. That dynamic is actually very common among men. You literally see it in male only social groups (such as army or prison) where bullying someone is how guys show in group membership.

You also see men say nice things they dont mean ... frequently to a women they then badmount or mock behind their backs.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#196

Post by LorenPechtel » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:33 PM UTC

ants_everywhere wrote: post #56

abxyz wrote: post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

I agree with you as a general rule. But this is actually pretty close to how Social Anxiety is defined. It's about the fear of being negatively evaluated or embarrassed. For example the DSM definition https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t12/ or the Mayo Clinic explainer page https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/social-anxiet... . I think what this blog post is getting at is describing for…

It's not just embarrassed, it's about avoiding being used as a punching bag by the local bullies the school will do nothing about.

And, yes, when the typical outcome is exclusion without any reason, or without a reason that you have any control over (such as that bully, people don't want to be around the targets because it might spill onto them) what else would you expect?

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#197

Post by nuancebydefault » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:40 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #194

nuancebydefault wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently a lady was telling me that she wasn't taken seriously. When a male colleague proposed something that she proposed years ago, people suddenly accepted it, she said. I explained her about 'implicit pecking order' in company culture and 'he is taller'. Then she said "yeah i'm short". Then I said yes but you are perfect the way you are, and I think she appreciated that.

Basically the company is sexist anf that is ok?

There's bias in _every_ company, every culture even. The bias is towards age, race, height, beauty, weight, as well as gender. I live in one of the most inclusive countries in the world and work for a very inclusive company. Still, pecking order and biases exist. I think it is human nature and maybe it is fine even.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#198

Post by LorenPechtel » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:40 PM UTC

bananalychee wrote: post #77

I think the premise, backed up by a couple of random tweets, is questionable, but glossing over that, the conclusion is more or less "just be yourself and you'll have more success". Maybe. But I feel like it's pinning social anxiety purely on neurotic safety-seeking behavior, which is superficial. Surely generalized social anxiety is an unhealthy over-correction, but some personality types have inherently more succes…

I find "just be yourself" insulting. It implies that the problem is attempting to fake it coming off wrong--it's all in your head. It ignores the reality that some people fit in better than others.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#199

Post by LorenPechtel » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 7:47 PM UTC

ranger_danger wrote: post #159

immibis wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, in my experience not avoiding being disliked only results in a lot of people disliking me, but hasn't brought any gains, unless a rate limit on HN is a gain (they say I'm "too ideological", whatever that means)

Since you brought it up, I will put in my 2 cents, and I will try to articulate it in a constructive way, not meant as an attack at all. Fair warning, I'm American and I realize you are European, and there are obvious cultural differences that may be at play. The main problem I have with you is the attitude. Very black-and-white thinking, as if you seemingly just know everything, about everything, which I don't think…

I have not noted his comment history so I'm only addressing this in a general fashion:

A lot of things actually are black and white, but people invent shades in them in order to avoid having to admit there's a problem without a solution. I've been accused of black and white thinking many times, almost never has the accuser been able to actually show a nuance to the situation.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#200

Post by ranger_danger » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 8:00 PM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #199

ranger_danger wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you brought it up, I will put in my 2 cents, and I will try to articulate it in a constructive way, not meant as an attack at all. Fair warning, I'm American and I realize you are European, and there are obvious cultural differences that may be at play. The main problem I have with you is the attitude. Very black-and-white thinking, as if you seemingly just know everything, about everything, which I don't think…

I have not noted his comment history so I'm only addressing this in a general fashion: A lot of things actually are black and white, but people invent shades in them in order to avoid having to admit there's a problem without a solution. I've been accused of black and white thinking many times, almost never has the accuser been able to actually show a nuance to the situation.

> A lot of things actually are black and white

My issue is with people who take this to the extreme and apply it to the vast majority of their responses, the so-called "know-it-alls" that Dunning & Kruger told us about.

I think if we want to be seen as truly intelligent, we need to have much more humility and empathy, and accept that we can't know everything about everything, and not try to act like we do.

> almost never has the accuser been able to actually show a nuance to the situation

I accept that that has been your experience, but I don't think it applies to everyone, not even close, and I think it also doesn't mean that they were wrong, they may just be unable to articulate a better response than you.