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Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

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Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#191
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can be requested to be taken down as well...

Host it in a country with free speech then

No need for actual free speech. Host it in Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran, DPRK, or any other strategic adversary of the United States. The success of ICEBlock is 100% inline with their information warfare goals. The more strife they can spread, the more protests, the more violence, the more confrontations, and the more 'noise' that gets made about ICE in the US, the better for them.

That doesn't mean the developer of ICEBlock is anti-American, just that there's a common interest in seeing his project succeed.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#193
post #8

FWIW, everyone who claims that Apple fundamentally needs the centralized ability to control apps on their platforms "for everyone's safety" -- despite how that obviously and repeatedly makes them become patsies for governments all over the world to enforce their censorship regimes -- are complicit in this stuff (in addition, of course, to the people who build it at Apple...).

May be not complicit, but I think people need to be reminded that the context that Apple claims privacy is a fundamental human right and they are the defender of it. Both PR and in court.

And this centralised censorship regimes isn't new. It is exactly the same during Hong Kong protest in 2019.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#194
post #84
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a bad thing? Was the Underground Railroad a bad thing?

In a society with rule of law, it is generally understood that adhering to laws, even ones you don't personally like, is a good thing; and that it would be a bad thing to pick and choose which laws to follow and enforce. I suppose you're making the argument that current US immigration law is unjust and immoral to begin with and therefore should be actively circumvented?

> In a society with rule of law

We no longer have a society with the rule of law. The fish rots from the head. You can thank everyone who voted for the wanton criminal promising everything yet nothing but destruction, now creating cruel spectacle after cruel spectacle to distract from the fundamental fact that he should be in prison. And additionally his enablers in Congress and on the Supreme Council who've decided that our Constitution is worth less than toilet paper.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites don’t need an App Store.

For how long? The software on our primary machines used to not need blessing, but that too changed.

as long as it needs to be uploaded onto to monopolies running cloud servers, domain hosters or financial processors

this is why any corrupt government allows the monopolies like Google and Apple proliferate. easier to contain a few

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#197
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wrongdoing is supporting this company's dominance, which enables this level of censorship.

You’re still not shaming me.

If you buy apple products, work for the company or own its stock then you are financially facilitating this. I don't know who you are and I don't care, I am just saying this is the basic cause and effect.

Things cannot improve unless stakeholders use their levers to change or abandon the company.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#198
post #8

FWIW, everyone who claims that Apple fundamentally needs the centralized ability to control apps on their platforms "for everyone's safety" -- despite how that obviously and repeatedly makes them become patsies for governments all over the world to enforce their censorship regimes -- are complicit in this stuff (in addition, of course, to the people who build it at Apple...).

> are complicit in this stuff I don’t know that that is fair. This framing is designed to shame people into feeling guilty for their point of view, rather than their actions. Being complicit means to be knowingly involved in or facilitating an illegal or wrongdoing act. In my books, it requires a level of participation that I don’t think your characterization meets.

You're dismissing the parent argument merely based on a narrow interpretation of the word complicity. The way they use it is common and correct in English language. All it needs is to aid the wrongdoing in some manner. That's exactly what you do when you choose to support and lend credence to Apple's flawed arguments on safety and thus blunt the opposition to their hostile practices. This is significant because Apple has been forced on occasions to backtrack on bad decisions in the face of public backlash. (Anybody remember their plan to scan all photos in the phone for CSAM?)

Now even if you want to go the pedantic or legal route, the meaning of complicity changes according to jurisdictions. Many legal jurisdictions consider interference in the opposition to a crime or even silence in the face of a crime to be complicity if you had sufficient knowledge about wrongdoer's intent. In this particular case, people had been warning for decades of this exact outcome, down to the details of the headline.

You could argue that this is policing of thought and opinion. Obviously, we're talking about moral responsibility here, which is just another opinion too as far as consequences are considered. (Except in cases of astroturfing and sock puppeting where the complicity is more direct. But we will ignore that possibility for now.)

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#199
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wrongdoing is supporting this company's dominance, which enables this level of censorship.

You’re still not shaming me.

Okay. So your point was not really: "I disagree on moral philosophy, responsibility and the attribution of guilt", it was: "I support Apple's centralized control on all apps you can run, but I don't want to be criticized for the moral implications of state control, censorship and authoritarianism, nor do I want to defend my position on the merits". That's cheap.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#200

[flagged]

Which law is this app breaking?

I think it’s more about liability that specifically breaking a law. I’m not a lawyer but Apple is knowingly publishing an app that is openly helping people evade and/or break the law AND is putting Law Enforcement in danger. Seems there is some liability there.
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