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That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

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Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#191

Post by dfedbeef »

pjc50 wrote: post #119
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

I keep joking that instead of the normal repressive state-controlled media, the West has media-controlled states. Electing a TV host is just a culmination of that. Or a media owner, like Berlusconi. Coincidentally he was brought down by his underage sex trafficking. Westerners voluntarily tune into their propaganda, leaving the 24/7 news channels blaring. But there is a critical difference in that elections do happen…

For now.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#192

Post by CommieBobDole »

roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

I'd like to point out that the student's advice, "of course the news is ridiculous propaganda, just ignore it and go about your life and focus on your friends and family" is the the response desired by the authoritarian Chinese government who has carefully engineered the situation in the first place.

The purpose of constantly publishing obvious lies is not for people to believe them (though some always will), it's to devalue the idea of truth in general. Combine that with overt (but unpredictable) penalties for supporting the 'wrong' cause, and a disinterest in politics becomes the easiest and safest path for a member of the public. As long as the economy's good, people just don't care about anything that doesn't harm them directly.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#193

Post by hnlmorg »

fidotron wrote: post #146
alansammarone wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think I agree with most of what you're saying, I think it can be misunderstood and it can be very damaging when taken to an extreme, so I'll just leave a quote from the absolutely fantastic 20 lessons from the 20th century by Timothy Snyder: > Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing…

The important point is to distinguish between truth and the co-ordinated release of information in the NYT, BBC etc. The latter is very much intended to send a message, but it is not to be taken as literal truth.

I cannot about the NYT, but the BBC is one of the most impartial sources available.

So much so that the left and the right accuse the BBC of biasing the other in equal measures!

If you want to talk about bias in the UK press then you’re better off looking towards The Sun, The Mail and anything owned by Murdoch (that guy has done so much damage to the world it’s unreal).

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#194

Post by eddywebs »

seydor wrote: post #109
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

I think the main difference is, in liberal countries people depend on the media to manufacture consensuses, while China does not need anyone but the leader to create them. No society can survive without a certain degree of consensus

Could be, I think the main point missing here is the independence of media from the state, wherever the place.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#195

Post by brookst »

m-s-y wrote: post #187
pjc50 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more serious problem: do people want to listen? Do they want difficult truths or comforting lies?

Honestly, it doesn’t matter. Staying silent generally doesn’t take an act of courage. No one exercises their speech muscles by staying silent. The true revolutionary act is exercising our right to speech, honestly and frequently. The important part is not to keep silent.

Suggest googling “compelled speech”

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#196

Post by r3trohack3r »

stevage wrote: post #165
bilekas wrote: post #15

> That’s not a thing, that’s not a valid reason to grant anonymity under normal journalistic principles. It’s the “Washington Game” of “official leaks”, disseminating propaganda without being held accountable. Yeah makes a lot of sense when framed like this, the timing of the secret service of all people busting this 'huge' operation was far too suspicious.

>That’s not a thing, that’s not a valid reason to grant anonymity under normal journalistic principles Are they just making up these "normal journalistic principles"? I see different newspapers publishing quotes anonymously under similar conditions all the time.

You’re so close to completing the thought

Yes, most newspapers are publishing anonymous quotes from government officials without scrutiny; quotes that are later found to have been completely bogus.

We live in an age of constant memetic warfare and a majority of our content distribution channels have been compromised.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#197

Post by zenmac »

fidotron wrote: post #146
alansammarone wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think I agree with most of what you're saying, I think it can be misunderstood and it can be very damaging when taken to an extreme, so I'll just leave a quote from the absolutely fantastic 20 lessons from the 20th century by Timothy Snyder: > Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing…

The important point is to distinguish between truth and the co-ordinated release of information in the NYT, BBC etc. The latter is very much intended to send a message, but it is not to be taken as literal truth.

>the co-ordinated release of information

That hit the nail right on the head, with ONLY 6 companies controlling all the mainstream media. News are just like coordinated company memo.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#198

Post by suddenlybananas »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #182
suddenlybananas wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Snyder himself is a bit of a propagandist with his ridiculous double genocide theory. Here's a longer discussion[1] with examples of how he is an ideologue. (I would have liked to post a reply to the people responding to me but alas, I cannot.) [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1brdk1l/comm...

Indeed, everybody except me is a propagandist with their ridiculous 'saying things I don't believe or want to agree with' . I, on the other hand, am always right.

There are many academics who disagree with his characterisation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_genocide_theory#Bloodla...

The point is, he's an ideologue (who may end up being right even if I think he's not) which makes it a bit ironic to mention in the context of talking about propaganda.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#199

Post by throaway5445454 »

roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

The problem with this statement is that your Chinese friend comes from a place where every information source allowed by the government can be safely assumed to be propaganda, by definition. That's how their system works. Not so in the west.

Re: That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

#200

Post by throaway5445454 »

CommieBobDole wrote: post #192
roody15 wrote: post #98

Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news. I…

I'd like to point out that the student's advice, "of course the news is ridiculous propaganda, just ignore it and go about your life and focus on your friends and family" is the the response desired by the authoritarian Chinese government who has carefully engineered the situation in the first place. The purpose of constantly publishing obvious lies is not for people to believe them (though some always will), it's to…

also was the outcome fostered by the USSR
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