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You Had No Taste Before AI

matthewsanabria.dev

191–200 of 201 posts

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#191
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only for modern definitions of advertising, mind you, which are all about dark patterns and invasive marketing, rather than putting a descrption of your product out there that can be searched by interested parties looking to buy a product like yours. There were times were advertising was useful and desirable, e.g. Small Ads pages. There was also a time when ads were a single unintrusive scrolling line, curated by the…

And yet it’s the profit motive that has driven the shift to widespread usage of dark patterns and invasive marketing.

We're not disagreeing, but in the sense that the language we use is important, I would not say it's the profit motive, but uncontrolled greed, that has driven this shift.

Reasonable profit is necessary. Something needs to put food on the table, both for your own family and that of your workers.

What you don't need is a 3 million dollar jet on the table at the expense of both your workers and your customers.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#192
post #136

As someone who works with a lot of creatives, I've noticed people tend to get really defensive and self-righteous anytime "taste" comes up, on both sides - the haute designer-types vs. the scrappy I-can-do-it types. So I won't be surprised if this post is controversial. But it's insightful. Having poor taste (or more charitably, having no taste) can be covered up or ignored by the ability to choose from a pre-curated…

Most software I find to provide a smooth, gratifying UX has been carefully designed, but not by a designer. The Fish and Elvish shells have designs involving lots of small, tasteful choices that add up. `fd` refines the traditional Unix `find` CLI in a ton of ways that reflect "good taste" and at the same time brings it more in line with the conventional long and short options of most GNU CLI utilities, including red…

It could be that the designers have to contend with greater forces: marketing, management, available developer time, politics, sprints etc.

It could also be that their work is dictated, so they don't get to explore and research.

It could also be that they are too removed from the users to understand them.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#193
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is subjective. Like countries, it exists only in people's minds. Its value comes from agreement by a large number of humans that it is valuable. A stack of Benjamins would be nigh-valueless to people from 9th-century China.

Not at all. The actual value of money comes from violence . This is objective, not subjective. If you have a certain amount of taxable income in the USA (or subject to US legal jurisdiction) then you're required to pay tax in US dollars: the IRS won't accept Euros or gold or anything else. If you fail to pay then eventually IRS employees will seize dollars from your financial accounts, or seize other assets and sell…

A good point. Thank you.

The violence, once enacted, is an objective fact.

The threat of violence is still there only due to the collective subjective agreement that countries exist.

The IRS would have no functional power if Washington, D.C. and other major US cities were destroyed in a nuclear exchange.

I could imagine many citizens still choosing to pay taxes of some sort and/or respect the value of physical dollars in such a scenario, but it would likely not be due to fear of the federal government. Possibly fear of local police, though.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#194
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "only thing that matters are money" ideology at its peak.

Money isn't all that matters but it is one of the few objective signs we have.

Having a number doesn't make the number a good measure.

If all I have is a yardstick, and I'm trying to measure weight, then I would probably be much better served using a qualitative method than by trying to use the yardstick.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#195
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do expect for my tastes to change if I study HCI, and to begin to notice things that I didn't notice before. And I'm interested in good heuristics for designing user interfaces for general audiences. But I've been visually impaired my entire life, I'm colorblind, my colorblindness is progressive, and I'm going blind (timeline unknown). So my worries that HCI might not be "for me" come from a few places: 1. (This is…

You can't be unaware of the existence of the field of accessibility in design? It's literally one of the trendiest things in design, probably trendy enough for you to specialize in it entirely if you wanted to.

The proposition for me is whether to take a class or two on this in the course of pursuing a graduate degree in CS. I'm not considering a career in HCI research.

> It's literally one of the trendiest things in design

Ask a person with low vision about how the rollout of "accessible buses" in Chicago affected their transit experience. I'll give you a hint: it made things worse and more difficult. My sister, who is blind, complains about it all the time. When a friend of hers, who is also blind, called in to say that she couldn't read the stops on the displays in the new "accessible buses", the response (after months of silence) was "we asked Chicago Lighthouse how to design the display, and they said standards called for a bold font and contrasting colors, so we're compliant". In fact the display has a much smaller font than the old LED displays. The colors are bright yellow and bright blue, which are "contrasting colors" but have very little luminance contrast, and they're overall harder to distinguish despite the bold font. Why were these colors actually chosen? It has nothing to do with contrast or accessibility— it's because they're the brand colors of the Chicago Transit Authority. And when actual blind people call them to tell them this doesn't in fact work for them, their answer is that they don't give a shit and that they're not interested in changing anything. (Changes would be physically trivial; the new displays are big-ass LCD TVs.)

This is the norm for accessibility initiatives in the real world, because disabled people are rarely directly involved in the design of anything.

If you've lived your whole life in a world in which accessibility concerns are purely theoretical and/or external to you, I suppose it's easy to have faith in "trends". But nobody who has actually navigated the world with disabilities does. Frankly, the only circumstances in which I'd be confident that an HCI class would not be primarily grounded in the primacy of the visual and the assumption of normal vision is (a) if I've reviewed the curriculum of a specific course and the curriculum indicates otherwise or (b) the course is taught by a blind person. Even so, I'm on the fence— maybe I still want to take such a course.

I'm in the early stages of planning to go back to school here, thinking out loud about whether HCI is a corner of computer science worth visiting for me and sharing that question as part of a perspective on "design" and how I relate to it. I don't need help remembering that accessibility research exists, thank you so very much.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#196
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's conflating content and design. Also, where else are these expectations in society? I think accessible websites are important for equitable access to content, services and tools for those with disabilities, but nobody provides "content only" designs for concert posters where the user is expected to create their own art around it. Nobody who is making a movie supplies the script as the only creative output for t…

It's interesting that you provide movie posters as an example. That's literally advertising. At some point the web evolved from being a simple text-based document format to becoming animated, linkable magazines and an endless barrage of advertising. It evolved to look pretty to entertain and entice people, not to inform them. > Nobody dumps a plaintext unformatted version of a book or research paper expecting you to…

You're taking the extreme view that I mentioned an ad and that invalidated the rest of the examples. Try not cherry picking?

>Have you read a novel? It's just text in paragraphs.

I take offense to this attack. Have _you_ ever opened a novel?

Typesetting matters a whole lot. Go convert an novel's .epub to .txt and ditch all of the fancy design, read it start to finish and tell me it's the same quality of experience. It isn't and you know it isn't. Hell, even different size prints of the same book are differently enjoyable. Your rants about ads do not invalidate the merits of design.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More examples: look up Dieter Rams (a person). Ran into the name a while back, and man- he made a record player 50yrs+ ago and it was never meant to be in fashion. It sure would still fit in as "simple device that does X" in the 2020's.

I really don't think that's a good example. That's someone who designers hold in high esteem. Most people today would not buy products with these aesthetics. Granted, I does hold up better than most, but I don't think it's an example of some immutable, objective principles of fashion.

Bro. You know the iPhone is almost entirely inspired by dieter right?

Like you statement could not be more absurdly wrong to a laughable degree.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#198
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most software I find to provide a smooth, gratifying UX has been carefully designed, but not by a designer. The Fish and Elvish shells have designs involving lots of small, tasteful choices that add up. `fd` refines the traditional Unix `find` CLI in a ton of ways that reflect "good taste" and at the same time brings it more in line with the conventional long and short options of most GNU CLI utilities, including red…

If it was designed, it was designed by a designer. That that designer also happened to play other roles, or that it's a CLI and not a GUI is immaterial. You're clearly confused about what designers do and who they are.

If I deliver a letter to a friend's house, that doesn't make me a mailman. But even setting that aside, I could have simply written "not a designer by training" or "not a designer by trade" or "not a professional designer". Boring.

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#199
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be unaware of the existence of the field of accessibility in design? It's literally one of the trendiest things in design, probably trendy enough for you to specialize in it entirely if you wanted to.

The proposition for me is whether to take a class or two on this in the course of pursuing a graduate degree in CS. I'm not considering a career in HCI research. > It's literally one of the trendiest things in design Ask a person with low vision about how the rollout of "accessible buses" in Chicago affected their transit experience. I'll give you a hint: it made things worse and more difficult. My sister, who is bli…

[deleted]

Re: You Had No Taste Before AI

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some tastes change but not _all_ tastes change. This is a common misconception in conversations about taste: “some of it is subjective therefore it must all be 100% subjective and meaningless”. Yet when this comes round to something you’re good at (music, painting, literature, cooking, sport, …) you immediately recognize that there are in fact timeless elements. Universal truths, which are characterized as subjective…

Isn't that just a lot of words to say "my taste is objective / rooted in reason, other people's tastes are a crapshoot"? Can you prescribe some specific test to tell objective design aesthetics from the "groupthink" ones? If not, then what are you saying, other than "I know when I see it, but not everyone does"? Sure, there are things we do in a particular way because of manufacturability or utility considerations, a…

> Can you prescribe some specific test to tell objective design aesthetics from the "groupthink" ones? If not, then what are you saying, other than "I know when I see it, but not everyone does"?

When you develop a good eye for clothing your sense of taste will be detached from fashion trends. Whether you like oversize pieces or not, you can tell whether the fit is good because fit is a matter of crafstmanship. You can tell from the color scheme what was the artistic attempt and whether the attempt was reached. You can tell the quality of the fabrics. You can tell the historical references a piece is inspired by and whether those references are coherent.

You develop a taste for cocktails and wines and you can try a cocktail that you don't personally prefer, say a Negroni. But you can tell whether the acidity and sweetness levels go well with the ingredients of choice, whether the aromatics are high quality, whether the glass accompanies the drink and if the drink was served at the correct temperature.

If you know about cuisine and someone executes a dish based on a specific style, you can immediately tell of the chef knew about the underlying theory behind those styles and how well they were executed. And they decided to purposefully make a break from a style, you can tell if that made for an impactful quality result or if they should have stuck to the original.

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