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Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

alastair.is

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Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#191

Post by HumblyTossed »

integralid wrote: post #12
snackbroken wrote: post #3

Providing an OS feature only to first-party programs is a plainly anticompetitive practice. Using your privileged position in one market (cell phones/cell phone operating systems) to gain an advantage in another market (smart phone applications) that you withhold from your competitors is a textbook case.

I wanted to be outraged at apple, but I really can't. Read WinAPI documentation and try to count all "reserved" parameters for example. OS developers build features just for internal use all the time. Granted, this is just UI tweak so I'm not convinced it has to be private, but they probably just don't want to have to maintain that forever.

> I wanted to be outraged at apple, but I really can't. Read WinAPI documentation

But this is exactly why you SHOULD be outraged.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#192

Post by leptons »

nwienert wrote: post #188
leptons wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should read the DOJ suit against Apple. It's pretty clear that one reason (among many) that Apple is getting sued is because of abusive business practices exactly as I described. Apple forcing Safari on iOS is present day, today, not 5 years ago (but it was also 5 years ago too, ever since there was an iOS webview). If Apple doesn't want to implement it, then they shouldn't force other browser makers to use…

So you’re ignoring my entire comment and re-iterating the part I didn’t respond to.

Nothing in your comment makes any difference so long as Apple blocks other browser engines on iOS. I honestly don't give a fuck what they do with Safari as long as they allow real Chrome to exist on iOS, which I can then instruct my users to install because Safari is a piece of shit browser.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#193

Post by com2kid »

mrits wrote: post #120
slashink wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That used to be true but they absolutely do this today :( Spent so much time trying to repro some functionality only to realize that Windows has an allow list for what apps it listens to for certain APIs.

Did it? I worked on an EDR product for a decade and the window internal gurus were always talking about undocumented API parameters

Microsoft considers documentation status and long term support status to be the same thing. If the behavior of a function / API is not going to remain stable, it isn't documented. If they don't want to pay maintenance/support costs for an API (more rigorous testing, sample code, etc) the API won't be documented.

Historically Microsoft had a 100% back compat guarantee for APIs, so the second an API was documented its external interface was frozen in stone forever. There are still APIs around to this day that have misspelled struct fields because someone made a typo 30+ years ago.

If an API isn't documented it is "use at your own risk", although if enough large software starts depending on it, the API may have to be frozen anyway (or compatibility shims put into place) to avoid breaking popular software programs.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#194

Post by presbyterian »

dmix wrote: post #132
presbyterian wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the glass effects and aesthetics, but I think the functionality in a lot of the apps isn't as good as it was. A lot of things that were easy-to-reach buttons are now tucked away in menus, and harder to find.

That always depends on how difficult discoverability is. For example if you're designing for something like Apple Watch there's very limited place for stuff, so you either pack it or you find ways to only show what's most important, using gestures or menus to do other stuff. Mobile apps having less UI elements immediately visible is not all bad. The hard part of new UX concepts like the new iOS camera button sliding…

> It's probably better to wait a year or two before critiquing Liquid Glass.

Releasing a broken operating system with "it'll be better in a year or two" simply doesn't work for me. If things haven't improved by the time Sequoia is EOL (which they very well me, I'm about 50/50 on it right now), I'm just going to move to Linux.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#195

Post by dmix »

presbyterian wrote: post #194
dmix wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That always depends on how difficult discoverability is. For example if you're designing for something like Apple Watch there's very limited place for stuff, so you either pack it or you find ways to only show what's most important, using gestures or menus to do other stuff. Mobile apps having less UI elements immediately visible is not all bad. The hard part of new UX concepts like the new iOS camera button sliding…

> It's probably better to wait a year or two before critiquing Liquid Glass. Releasing a broken operating system with "it'll be better in a year or two" simply doesn't work for me. If things haven't improved by the time Sequoia is EOL (which they very well me, I'm about 50/50 on it right now), I'm just going to move to Linux.

Fair enough, change is annoying to users, plus at the same time there's huge overhead keeping a beta queued up for a year+ while everything slow moves over to a new theme. While management wants something new right away. So it's a difficult compromise I'm sure every frontend dev has had to deal with.

Apple's ecosystem tends to to quickly adapt to new UX. Slightly faster than Android.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#196

Post by nwienert »

leptons wrote: post #192
nwienert wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re ignoring my entire comment and re-iterating the part I didn’t respond to.

Nothing in your comment makes any difference so long as Apple blocks other browser engines on iOS. I honestly don't give a fuck what they do with Safari as long as they allow real Chrome to exist on iOS, which I can then instruct my users to install because Safari is a piece of shit browser.

Safari is better than Chrome imo, technically, UX and otherwise, but you're entitled to be mad about lock-in. I just wasn't responding to that part.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#197

Post by ezfe »

bigyabai wrote: post #79
ezfe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS has many private APIs, this one is no different. The fact it's implemented in WebKit is a red herring.

So when Google creates self-serving APIs in a web browser engine, it's anti-consumer and is killing the free web. But when Apple creates self-serving APIs in a web browser engine, it's just another private entitlement, a red herring and their right as the proprietor of Safari. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

It's literally not part of the web because it's not available in Safari or WebKit views in applications.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#198

Post by kingsleyg »

_alastair wrote: post #97
swyx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you write really well OP! please keep it up.

Thanks! I'm hoping to continue down this path and write up some thoughts on how you might actually achieve seamless in-app webviews at some point but, y'know... time. In the meantime (hey, it's already a thread of self-promotion) my last writeup was about the native views WKWebView generates when you use hardware accelerated CSS transforms: https://alastair.is/learning-about-what-happens-when-you-use...

[flagged]

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#199

Post by leptons »

nwienert wrote: post #196
leptons wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in your comment makes any difference so long as Apple blocks other browser engines on iOS. I honestly don't give a fuck what they do with Safari as long as they allow real Chrome to exist on iOS, which I can then instruct my users to install because Safari is a piece of shit browser.

Safari is better than Chrome imo, technically, UX and otherwise, but you're entitled to be mad about lock-in. I just wasn't responding to that part.

technically?? With all those modern and useful APIs they don't implement? That's how they're technically better by not having useful tech? Wow. Okay, you do you.

Re: Apple has a private CSS property to add Liquid Glass effects to web content

#200

Post by anonymars »

snackbroken wrote: post #175
anonymars wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the key distinction -- of course Windows will likely have internal-only APIs for its own internal use. The problem is when e.g. there are special internal Windows APIs that Office can use but Lotus/etc. can't, or that Edge can use but Firefox/Chrome/etc. can't.

Sorry, yes. To clarify, it's about withholding features of a product in one market from your competitors in the other market.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be snarky, rather there often seems to be a "private code shouldn't exist, code wants to be free!" ethos that makes my eyebrows twitch in PTSD from reading all of Raymond Chen's tales of depending on undocumented code, e.g.

*https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031015-00/?p=42...

*https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20031223-00/?p=41...

*https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20230113-00/?p=10...

*https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20060109-27/?p=32...

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