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PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

newsroom.paypal-corp.com

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Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#191

Post by praptak »

mistercheph wrote: post #114
praptak wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have to handle chargebacks and resolve disputes.

Those are functions of a marketplace, a low-cost pseudo-legal system so that you hopefully avoid using a state's costly and slow legal system. But if marketplaces also own the medium of exchange, e.g. marketplaces that issue tokens and only allow transacting in tokens (Paypal behind the scenes), their economic incentive is not to resolve disputes, but to create as many barriers as possible to converting tokens back i…

"If only there was a technology which fixes this..."

"Those are functions of a marketplace"

Then it seems you should have said "If only there was a technology and a marketplace which fixes this..."

And no, it doesn't exist because handling disputes is a hard problem. It's the actual moat of PayPal (and credit card companies) and the reason why they can get away with their crappy behaviour.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#192

Post by glitchc »

majkinetor wrote: post #176
unleaded wrote: post #152

real question because i don't know, what do people actually buy with crypto other than other money or illegal stuff? i presume paypal won't be happy with you buying/selling drugs with it

I have a virtual crypto card and gave it to my daughter and she added it to the Google wallet on her android. She uses it anywhere to buy anything. My bank didn't want to open bank account to minor. Everything was set up in 10 minutes. I transfer to her some random coins and it just works. I also use it myself as a backup abroad when my regular bank foreign account doesn't work for any reason. I got the card in the m…

Used everywhere to buy everything? Some serious evidence is required to support this claim. I bet she can't even buy candy at your neighbourhood convenience store.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#193

Post by mtlynch »

jrmski wrote: post #171
jdadj wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen such features on business accounts (Wells Fargo ACH Fraud Filter, JPMorgan ACH Debit Block, etc). What bank allows that on a consumer account?

Mercury's personal banking product allows you to reject ACH transactions before they clear. They also allow you to generate virtual account numbers, so you can easily cut off an entity without having to change your main account number. Unfortunately Mercury charges a monthly fee.

That's pretty cool! I didn't know about that.

For anyone curious, the fee is $240/yr.

I used Mercury when I had an LLC and had a great experience. It feels like they're the only bank that's not 10 years behind in technology. I've never tried their personal banking, but the ACH denial power makes me a lot more curious.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#194

Post by fmbb »

holoduke wrote: post #187
unleaded wrote: post #152

real question because i don't know, what do people actually buy with crypto other than other money or illegal stuff? i presume paypal won't be happy with you buying/selling drugs with it

I know quite some Russian companies using bitcoins t to trade with western companies. For example large ad networks and bookies that operate there and pay in bitcoins. Malta, Switzerland are quite popular for these constructions.

Isn’t that illegal, I mean what those Western companies are doing?

So that does not answer the question what legit stuff businesses do.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#195

Post by ergocoder »

unleaded wrote: post #152

real question because i don't know, what do people actually buy with crypto other than other money or illegal stuff? i presume paypal won't be happy with you buying/selling drugs with it

Cross border money transfer is one reason. People in 3rd world countries don't want to hold their money in the country. Many want to get paid by stablecoins.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#197

Post by tootie »

majkinetor wrote: post #189
tootie wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not remotely predictable. The value has swung wildly over the past 5 years. Dropping more than 50% then gaining 200%. By comparison, USD has been rock solid even with the recent run of inflation. An actually circulating currency causes a panic at an 8% drop in value and yet there was zero macroeconomic impact from BTC dropping 50%. BTC is less stable than Turkish Lira.

The same can be said for stocks, and they are considered a good investment if you are in the knows. As an example, Tesla lost a third of its value this year.

Stocks convey equity, pay dividends, must do quarterly disclosures, must disclose insider trading activity and, most importantly, are never used for payments. The topic is payments, not investments.

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#198

Post by mrguyorama »

bapak wrote: post #143
asim wrote: post #140

Just to echo other sentiments. Don't use PayPal to hold your crypto. Yes it will open the gateway to existing PayPal users and enable them to transact in these currencies. But the reality is that these centralised entities do not operate under an ethical code the way you would expect them to. They make unilateral decisions about what happens to your account and funds without asking you a single question. Be very care…

> you can't control Well, they're not above the law. They're effectively a bank and must follow the laws in the countries in which they operate.

Paypal is very specifically not a bank and does not have to follow banking regulations

Re: PayPal to support Ethereum and Bitcoin

#199

Post by mistercheph »

vkou wrote: post #133
mistercheph wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are functions of a marketplace, a low-cost pseudo-legal system so that you hopefully avoid using a state's costly and slow legal system. But if marketplaces also own the medium of exchange, e.g. marketplaces that issue tokens and only allow transacting in tokens (Paypal behind the scenes), their economic incentive is not to resolve disputes, but to create as many barriers as possible to converting tokens back i…

The problem is that there are two parties in any transaction, and power users/casual users swayed by marketing will be the ones that will choose the medium on which the transaction will take place. So while you may want a self-sovereign exchange, your counterparty doesn't give a shit about your preferences, or is actively happy with using PayPal (Because their dispute resolution is better biased towards their side of…

One can argue about the difficulty of overcoming network effects to make mediums of exchange viable until the cows come home but that's orthogonal to the issue GP raised and ultimately impossible to predict.

As a counterpoint to the rhetorical impossibility of a challenger overcoming an incumbent (in almost all subjects this is true, despite challengers in the world regularly overcoming incumbents), exchange rates indicate markets are positive about the network effect threshold being overcome, since if it is impossible to overcome, the value of all cryptocurrencies combined is approximately 0.

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