Why this feels so incredibly appealing compared to prevailing designs is probably something for a psychologist / cognitive scientist / neurologist (?) to answer -- there is certainly something here that warrants better study than what we in the software industry do in rushed blog posts. But I can personally speak to at least one aspect, having worked for a company that does high end web sites and strategy for large S…
This is definitely a surprising opinion to find on HN. Usually the prevailing thought is that anything that is even remotely heavy on JavaScript is bad design and therefore inherently unusable, unportable, etc. Whereas this is essentially JavaScript maximalism.
Why our website looks like an operating system
191–200 of 504 posts
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#192Why this feels so incredibly appealing compared to prevailing designs is probably something for a psychologist / cognitive scientist / neurologist (?) to answer -- there is certainly something here that warrants better study than what we in the software industry do in rushed blog posts. But I can personally speak to at least one aspect, having worked for a company that does high end web sites and strategy for large S…
This is definitely a surprising opinion to find on HN. Usually the prevailing thought is that anything that is even remotely heavy on JavaScript is bad design and therefore inherently unusable, unportable, etc. Whereas this is essentially JavaScript maximalism.
Honestly, you don't judge a back-end by how much code it's built with or what platform it's hosted on. I don't get the obsession people have with JavaScript used on websites. Websites with terrible UX often abuse JavaScript yes, but correlation != causation.
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
> EU law is just meritless pestering of people It is that. It has done literally nothing to improve anything whatsoever, in any country. And most of the "cookie management" scripts that people use, barely even work. Both the law and the way it's complied with in practice are a dumb solution to a problem that the EU should have forced browser vendors to solve. Only the user's browser can choose not to send back cookie…
The EU law is fine, the implementation used isn't. But never blame the EU laws for cookie banners; the law does not mandate banners at all, let alone the ones full of dark patterns to nag you into accepting anyway. That's all the industry. The industry could have come up with a standard, a browser add-on, respect a browser setting, etc but they chose the most annoying one to pester you, the user.
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#194Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. If they indeed only use the cookie for essential functionality, this kind of joke banner only makes their choice to respect visitors' privacy equally annoying. Even worse: because it makes it seem like the EU law is just meritless pestering of people, they are actually fighting for the right for worse sites to spy on their visitors. It's baffling.
> EU law is just meritless pestering of people It is that. It has done literally nothing to improve anything whatsoever, in any country. And most of the "cookie management" scripts that people use, barely even work. Both the law and the way it's complied with in practice are a dumb solution to a problem that the EU should have forced browser vendors to solve. Only the user's browser can choose not to send back cookie…
Bad implementation of the EU law indeed, as another comment said. It fails the purpose completely and just create more problems for nearly everyone.
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#196> Legally-required cookie banner > PostHog.com doesn't use third-party cookies, only a single in-house cookie You're legally required to let me opt out of that cookie. Unless it's essential to the site functionality, in which case you don't need the banner at all.
They also embed Youtube if you open the demo, which in turn tracks users (yes, even through the no-cookie subdomain: https://dustinwhisman.com/writing/youtube-nocookie-com-will-...).
Ursula von der Leyen would not be very proud.
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#197Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#198> Legally-required cookie banner > PostHog.com doesn't use third-party cookies, only a single in-house cookie You're legally required to let me opt out of that cookie. Unless it's essential to the site functionality, in which case you don't need the banner at all.
I’m interested to hear which country forces a cookie banner for any cookie, because the EU only requires it for tracking cookies and this website does net specify whether it’s used for that purpose. I’ve created websites with a cookie banner “because it’s required” even though there were no cookies involved. The idea that every website needs a cookie banner is more hurtful than the cookie banners themself.
It's still stupid though as most of the sites I do absolutely still track certain activity, it's just done server side.
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. If they indeed only use the cookie for essential functionality, this kind of joke banner only makes their choice to respect visitors' privacy equally annoying. Even worse: because it makes it seem like the EU law is just meritless pestering of people, they are actually fighting for the right for worse sites to spy on their visitors. It's baffling.
> EU law is just meritless pestering of people It is that. It has done literally nothing to improve anything whatsoever, in any country. And most of the "cookie management" scripts that people use, barely even work. Both the law and the way it's complied with in practice are a dumb solution to a problem that the EU should have forced browser vendors to solve. Only the user's browser can choose not to send back cookie…
Most of the "cookie management" scripts that people use aren't compliant.
EU law requires "Accept All" and "Reject All Non-Essential" be both equally easy to access and given equal weight (or rather: the latter can't be given less weight and made more difficult to access, which almost all of these scripts blatantly ignore).
Browser vendors can't solve this because the question isn't technical but legal. It's not about first-party vs third-party cookies (let alone same-origin vs cross-origin) but about the purposes of those cookies - and not just cookies but all transferred data (including all HTTP requests).
You don't need to (and in fact can't) opt into technically necessary cookies like session cookies for a login and such. It's plausible that these might even be cross-origin (as long as the other domain is controlled by the same legal entity). If they're provided by a third party, that would indeed be data sharing that warrants a disclosure and opt in (or rather: this can only happen once the user acknowledges this but they have no option to refuse and still use the service if it can't plausibly be provided without this).
The GDPR and ePrivacy laws (and the DMA and DSA) have done a lot for privacy but most of what they have done has happened behind the scenes (as intended) by changing how companies operate. The "cookie management" is just the user-facing part of those companies' hostile and dishonest reactions to these laws as well as a cottage industry of grifters providing "compliance" solutions for companies that can't afford the technical and legal expertise to understand what they actually need to do and think they can just tick a box by buying the right product/service.
Heck, most companies don't even provide legally compliant privacy policies and refuse to properly handly data access requests. The GDPR requires companies to disclose all third parties (or their categories if they can't disclose identities) your (specifically your) data has been shared with and the specific types of data, purposes of that sharing and legal basis for sharing it (i.e. if it required consent, how and when that consent was given) - and yet most will only link you to their generic privacy policy that answers none of those questions or only provides vague general answers or irrelevant details ("We and our 11708 partners deeply care about your privacy").
Re: Why our website looks like an operating system
#200> Legally-required cookie banner > PostHog.com doesn't use third-party cookies, only a single in-house cookie You're legally required to let me opt out of that cookie. Unless it's essential to the site functionality, in which case you don't need the banner at all.
No, this is conflating "GDPR consent" and the ePrivacy Directive. According to ePD the banner must always be shown if the company providing the service is based in the EU