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Signal Secure Backups

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191–200 of 460 posts

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#191

Post by kelnos »

drnick1 wrote: post #181
mimischi wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think our should not? Sincerely asking. And while I’m here, if you’re implying that Signal is Blut trustworthy, you should step out of the HN bubble and have a look around what everyone and their dog shares through less secure means

I did not mean to say that there are better options for encrypted communication. My point was that my use case is texts like "I'll be in the gym at 6:00 bro", not things that I really want to keep or backup. If someone sends a picture or a file that I want to keep, I can already do so manually.

My use case is everything from yours, up to deep personal conversations, and photos and videos that I'd like not to lose.

I don't feel like backing these up manually; it's a computer, and its job is to do tedious, repetitive, easy-to-forget tasks so I don't have to.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#192

Post by Zambyte »

graemep wrote: post #146
dns_snek wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially after SyncThing disappeared from Play Store (because it was basically a non-Android app behind a thin Android shell that couldn't easily be upgraded to more modern native APIs), there's nothing super-obvious here. That's not what happened, it was Google who started rejecting their updates on Play store. I believe the original Android app maintainer quit after that but there's a fork on on F-droid which w…

fork that will work perfectly until year after next.

Why?

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#193

Post by V__ »

andrepd wrote: post #116
V__ wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any plans to allow backups to a custom server or another folder?

From tfa: > But secure backups aren’t the end of the road. The technology that underpins this initial version of secure backups will also serve as the foundation for more secure backup options in the near future. Our future plans include letting you save a secure backup archive to the location of your choosing, alongside features that let you transfer your encrypted message history between Android, iOS, and Desktop d…

Thanks, totally overlooked that last paragraph.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#194

Post by oxalorg »

Creating signal backups for iPhone users is _really_ hard. The only way to do it is to get a backup from the Signal Desktop app, which is also non-trivial because in recent versions of the desktop the decrypt key is also encrypted and store in keychain.

I had to install sqlcipher, find my encrypted key stored locally, find the decrypt key in apple's keychain, decrypt it using Signal's format, etc. This took a lot of trial and error, and reading a lot of existing source (special thanks to https://github.com/bepaald/get_signal_desktop_key_mac but unfortunately it did not work OOTB for me)

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#196

Post by bdzr »

greysonp wrote: post #54
chimeracoder wrote: post #20

I know plenty of people who have inadvertently lost their entire messaging history because their phone broke or was lots and they couldn't transfer messages directly from the old phone to the new one. Signal allows you to export backups of messages to a file, but only on Android - the iOS version does not. This is a great feature not only for users who are less technically inclined than the average HN reader, but for…

Hi there, Signal dev here. We are absolutely keeping the local backup feature. More than that -- we'll be improving it to also be cross-platform and incremental, meaning it'll be much faster to both create the backup as well as sync it if you use a third-party folder-syncing solution (like syncthing or something).

Will the secure backups also be incremental? I've gotten to the point where the backup takes quite a while to generate.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#197

Post by nlitsme »

This seems to be an unfortunate case where a feature has a misleading name.

You already had secure and encrypted backups on your phone, which you could copy and restore, if you remembered to copy them, and write down a very long password.

The new feature is apparently a way for signal to sell cloud services.

I do think cloud based backups are very useful for less technical people. But it does not really matter if your (properly encrypted) signal backup lives on a google drive/apple cloud, or on a cloud service managed by Signal.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#198

Post by Silhouette »

I appreciate Signal and that the Signal developers provide a very useful service to the community for free.

I also know a large number of people who won't use it because it locks your messages up in its own walled garden. People use apps like this precisely because they want to have control over their own communications without any third parties interfering! I have never understood what kind of threat model they think they're protecting against by not letting people take their own backups and store them according to their own preferences. Whatever the reasons it is clearly a deterrent to wider adoption.

This announcement might seem like progress but I doubt it will convince any of the people I know who won't use it because at the end of the day it's still a walled garden. If and when the promise of the comments near the end of the announcement is realised and we can back up our own messages and media freely from our own devices to our own (presumably also secure) backup facilities then it will be much more interesting.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#199

Post by GuB-42 »

drnick1 wrote: post #157

Are backups really necessary? I have always regarded texts (over Signal or SMS) as ephemeral. No one is or should be sending valuable information over Signal, and if you happen to receive something you want to keep, you can always do so manually.

Why should information on Signal be ephemeral on Signal?

Signal is one of the few "privacy-first" services. But it is not just about privacy, it is also about having as many users as possible, which is actually important for privacy. If only people who really have "something to hide", then just using the app makes you a target. If instead it is used by millions of people for grocery shopping and dinner planning, then whoever really needs the privacy features will not stand out. The third is, of course, making money, because, of course, none of that is free.

That's why features like backups are important. Many people want them, maybe not you, but Signal is not just for you, it also makes money. By the way, that's also the reason why there are some privacy compromises, like contact discovery and the use of phone numbers, because they feel like done right, it is worth it. Note that have partially addressed both of these problems.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#200

Post by Analemma_ »

nlitsme wrote: post #197

This seems to be an unfortunate case where a feature has a misleading name. You already had secure and encrypted backups on your phone, which you could copy and restore, if you remembered to copy them, and write down a very long password. The new feature is apparently a way for signal to sell cloud services. I do think cloud based backups are very useful for less technical people. But it does not really matter if you…

The encrypted backups do work, but Signal is really, really bad at indicating when and how to make them to use them for restoration. Most non-technical people I know are just resigned to wiping out their Signal history every time they get a new iPhone (and I know two people who abandoned Signal and went back to iMessage because of this), and even I've lost it a couple times.

It leaves sort of a gross taste in my mouth that a paid service is the fix for their unhelpful UX.

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