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If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

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Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#191

Post by robwwilliams »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #69
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are you doing with the data? What is your legacy going to be other than the data that you leave to be mined? Do you just not want something else to benefit from something that has no benefit to you? If so, why?

There is a myriad of reasons i may not want my data to be used. Maybe I am working on proprietary systems, maybe I am using Claude as a psychotherapist, maybe I use it as a tax advisor, the list goes on. Is it unrealistic to think that data may be extrapolated and connected to me in the future?

Is there a reason you cannot opt out? Or don’t you trust Anthropic’s opt-out implementation.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#192

Post by robwwilliams »

some_random wrote: post #61

Title is misleading, they're now opt-out rather than opt-in to your data being used for training. All you have to do is flip a single switch in the options to turn it off, I don't understand why everyone is treating this as being such a big deal. Edit: I just logged in to opt out, they presented me with the switch directly. It was two clicks.

Odd that you are being down-voted for pointing out the easy opt-out option. I need this opt-in feature. I suppose the polarity of action could be a factor.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#193

Post by gist »

michaelmior wrote: post #90
marssaxman wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" constitutes stealing now? Seems like an excessively draconian interpretation of property rights.

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" is also very different from a business having machines consume large volumes of data posted on the Internet for the purpose of generating value for them without compensating the creators. I'm not making a value judgement one way or the other, but "reading stuff freely posted on the Internet" is an oversimplification.

> "Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" is also very different from a business having machines consume large volumes of data posted on the Internet for the purpose of generating value for them without compensating the creators.

The fact that value is being created is irrelevant. The fact that they are making profit is irrelevant. As is non compensation to creators. There isn't any law being broken. Is there?

Bottom line in real world terms there is no expectation of privacy with a freely open and unrestricted web site. Even if that website said 'you can use this for single use but not mass use' that in itself is not legally or practically enforceable.

Let's take the example of a Christmas light show. The idea might be (in the homeowners mind) that people, families, will drive by in their cars to enjoy the light show (either a single home or the entire street or most of it). They might think 'we don't want buses full of people who paid to ride the bus' coming down the street. Unfortunately there is no way to prevent that (without the city and laws getting involved) and there is nothing wrong with the fact that the people who provide the bus are making money bringing people to see the light show.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#194

Post by Wowfunhappy »

marssaxman wrote: post #182
fcarraldo wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic downloaded books from Library Genesis and The Pirate Library mirror. This is factual and reported on from court documents. What’s the angle that describes this as fair use? [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/anthropic-cut-pirated-millio...

The simple fact that they are not republishing any of that data. Fair use does not apply, because copyright does not apply, because nothing is being copied .

So you don't think downloading something from The Pirate Bay constitutes copyright infringement provided you don't republish it?

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#195

Post by jMyles »

michaelmior wrote: post #90
marssaxman wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" constitutes stealing now? Seems like an excessively draconian interpretation of property rights.

"Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" is also very different from a business having machines consume large volumes of data posted on the Internet for the purpose of generating value for them without compensating the creators. I'm not making a value judgement one way or the other, but "reading stuff freely posted on the Internet" is an oversimplification.

> "Reading stuff freely posted on the internet" is also very different from a business having machines consume large volumes of data

...not if you believe in the right of general-purpose computing. If they have the right to read the data, why don't they have a right to program a computer to do it for them?

I think we all agree that they're not the good guys here, but this reasoning in particular is troubling.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#196

Post by pigeons »

pigeons wrote: post #135
marssaxman wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but "stealing" is also an oversimplification, to the point of absurdity. It makes no sense to put stuff up on the internet where it can freely be downloaded by anyone at any time, by people who are then free to do whatever they like with it on their own hardware, then complain that people have downloaded that stuff and done what they liked with it on their own hardware. "Having machines consume large volumes of…

But they didn't only train on information the creators made freely available. They trained on copyrighted materials obtained illicitly.

I know we're not supposed to comment about downvotes, but the original comment was talking about "these companies", and none of the information indicating that they, or at the very least Meta, trained on terabytes of books downloaded from zlib and libgen and other torrent sites, is in dispute. So even if you believe that copyright should not exist, I don't see why this is not a valid dispute of the parents argument that they only trained on information creators made freely available.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#197

Post by simonw »

fcarraldo wrote: post #172
simonw wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't companies be trusted to follow the settings? If they add those settings why would you expect they wouldn't respect them? Do you think they're purely cosmetic features that don't actually do anything?

Because they can’t be? https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jmledvr3o

There is an enormous gap between the behavior covered in those two cases and training machine learning models on user data that a company has specifically said it will not use for training.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#198

Post by marssaxman »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #194
marssaxman wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple fact that they are not republishing any of that data. Fair use does not apply, because copyright does not apply, because nothing is being copied .

So you don't think downloading something from The Pirate Bay constitutes copyright infringement provided you don't republish it?

Precisely. The person sharing is the one breaking the law.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#199

Post by TheRoque »

marssaxman wrote: post #198
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't think downloading something from The Pirate Bay constitutes copyright infringement provided you don't republish it?

Precisely. The person sharing is the one breaking the law.

That's factually wrong, downloading without sharing is also illegal.

Re: If you have a Claude account, they're going to train on your data moving forward

#200

Post by atkailash »

aatd86 wrote: post #93

I don't know what they've been training on but I just canceled claude for the second time. Besides the numerous UI bugs of the web interface, incessant flickerings, it has gotten weirdly super condescending and negative in a way I hadn't observed neither in the past nor with other llms. Probably that people accused it of being sycophantic and they have tried to adjust it but they didn't do it well. It'd rather critic…

I’ve found Gemini argumentative and maybe condescending too.

Mistral feels like a good balance between haughtiness and sycophantism.

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