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PYX: The next step in Python packaging

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Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#191

Post by int_19h »

m_kos wrote: post #40

> Why is it so hard to install PyTorch, or CUDA, or libraries like FlashAttention or DeepSpeed that build against PyTorch and CUDA? This is so true! On Windows (and WSL) it is also exacerbated by some packages requiring the use of compilers bundled with outdated Visual Studio versions, some of which are only available by manually crafting download paths. I can't wait for a better dev experience.

Given that WSL is pretty much just Linux, I don't see what relevance Visual Studio compiler versions have to it. WSL binaries are always built using Linux toolchains.

At the same time, even on Windows, libc has been stable since Win10 - that's 10 years now. Which is to say, any binary compiled by VC++ 2015 or later is C-ABI-compatible with any other such binary. The only reasons why someone might need a specific compiler version is if they are relying on some language features not supported by older ones, or because they're trying to pass C++ types across the ABI boundary, which is a fairly rare case.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#192

Post by int_19h »

kinow wrote: post #18
ctoth wrote: post #8

As I said a couple weeks ago, they're gonna have to cash out at some point. The move won't be around Uv -- it'll be a protected private PyPi or something. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44712558 Now what do we have here?

I haven't adopted uv yet watching to see what will be their move. We recently had to review our use of Anaconda tools due to their changes, then review Qt changes in license. Not looking forward to another license ordeal.

Given how widely popular uv is, I'm pretty sure that in the event of any impactful license change it would immediately get forked.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#193

Post by int_19h »

rob wrote: post #55

Is there a big enough commercial market for private Python package registries to support an entire company and its staff? Looks like they're hiring for $250k engineers, starting a $26k/year OSS fund, etc. Expenses seem a bit high if this is their first project unless they plan on being acquired?

Continuum has been doing something very similar with Anaconda, and they've been around for over a decade now.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#195

Post by int_19h »

nixpulvis wrote: post #169

Can I ask a dumb question. Why does Ruby (for example) not have this problem, but python still can't ship a standard solution which isn't constantly changing and rolled up in some corporate offering?

Ruby is mostly used in web dev, where most if not all of your dependencies tend to be pure Ruby.

Python is used heavily for DS/ML/AI, which is exactly the area where native code packages are necessary and prevalent. Worse yet is that those packages often involve GPU code, and things like CUDA bring their own complications.

If you're writing web apps in Python, dependencies haven't really been a problem for a long time now.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#197

Post by int_19h »

kavaruka wrote: post #164
nodesocket wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much better than the Node a handful of years back. Everybody used NPM, everybody switched to Yarn, everybody switched back to NPM.

I think node has a better tooling and ecosystem right now. Astral is doing a great job to reduce the gap.

Node ecosystem still has the problem where if you try to build a project two years later, chances are good it won't work, because breaking changes are so common, and this is then multiplied across all the tiny packages that are dependencies of your dependencies.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#198

Post by computershit »

runningmike wrote: post #103

All python packaging challenges are solved. Lesson learned is that there is not a single solution for all problems. getting more strings attached with VC funded companies and leaning on their infrastructure is a high risk for any FOSS community.

> All python packaging challenges are solved.

This comes across as uninformed at best and ignorant at worst. Python still doesn't have a reliable way to handle native dependencies across different platforms. pip and setuptools cannot be the end all be all of this packaging ecosystem nor should they be.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#199

Post by kccqzy »

I hate that they are using the pyx name; it's the extension for Cython files. It's going to cause at least a moment of confusion for people. They could have easily checked for name collision in the Python ecosystem but they chose not to do that; that's like a middle finger gesture to the community.

Re: PYX: The next step in Python packaging

#200

Post by stackskipton »

woodruffw wrote: post #50
notpushkin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct; however, without a CLA and assuming there are outside contributors, relicensing the existing code would be mildly painful, if not downright impossible.

You're saying that would be more painful in a viral license setting, right? If so I agree, although I think there's a pretty long track record of financially incentivized companies being willing to take that pain. MongoDB's AGPL transition comes to mind. But, to refocus on the case at hand: Astral's tools don't require contributors to sign a CLA. I understand (and am sympathetic) to the suspicion here, but the bigger…

They have no need to, current repos show everything is under MIT/Apache. They could close the source at any time and not worry about CLA.

>bigger picture here is that Astral wants to build services as a product

What services? pyx? Looks nice but I doubt my boss is going to pay for it. More likely they just say "Whatever, package is in PyPi, use that."

UV, Ruff, Ty. Again, maybe they can get some data/quant firm who REALLY cares about speed to use their products. Everyone else will emit a long sigh, grab pip/poetry, black and mypy and move on.

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