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US to rewrite its past national climate reports

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Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#191

Post by UncleMeat »

hollerith wrote: post #150
nwallin wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2020, China had 253GW of total solar capacity. In 2024, China installed 277GW of additional solar capacity. In June, they were up to 1,100GW of total solar capacity. In 2023, 60% of the global solar installation happened in China. China is so far ahead of the world in green energy it's ridiculous. We can't pretend that it's still 1995 and China still gets most of its energy from coal anymore.

Top four coal consumers as of 2023 (last year for which this data set is available): China 91.9 exajoules India 22 exajoules United States 8.2 exajoules Japan 4.54 exajoules https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/coal-cons...

China uses a shitload of coal. The US uses far less because we moved to other fossil fuel sources. It turns out that coal is not the only ghg emitter. China is installing way more zero-emission power generation. Looking only at coal and ignoring gas is very odd.

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#192

Post by UncleMeat »

simiones wrote: post #37
throwaway4496 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature has no feelings, there will be no retribution, things will work out just fine, it will just be tough for us, maybe even wiped out, but nature will prevail. life will find a way, look at places where humans get excluded, everything regenerates. It is not a crises of nature, it is a crises of habitat for us as species, and a bunch of other like us.

"Save the planet? The planet's fine - it's us that are fucked." -- George Carlin

George Carlin is a comedian. That line is a joke, not an actual serious retort to somebody using the phrase "save the planet" to talk about stopping climate change.

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#194

Post by throw0101d »

1659447091 wrote: post #170
BenoitP wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now testify!

Rage Against the Machine[0] delivers it best & very fitting so many quotes in this thread (and thanks for the 90/00 playlist for the day) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3dvbM6Pias

> Rage Against the Machine[0] delivers it best & very fitting

Not really: this false equivalence between Democrats and GOP (especially their recent incarnation) is absolutely delusional. Contrast Obama, Trump 1.0, Biden, Trump 2.0 (so far). Like really?

> [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3dvbM6Pias

With a few decades worth of hind sight, does anyone actually think that Gore would have handled 9/11 (leading into Afghanistan and Iraq) the same was as Bush (and Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz)? Even at the time (I'm a GenXer) it was strange thinking.

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#195

Post by 1659447091 »

throw0101d wrote: post #194
1659447091 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rage Against the Machine[0] delivers it best & very fitting so many quotes in this thread (and thanks for the 90/00 playlist for the day) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3dvbM6Pias

> Rage Against the Machine[0] delivers it best & very fitting Not really: this false equivalence between Democrats and GOP (especially their recent incarnation) is absolutely delusional. Contrast Obama, Trump 1.0, Biden, Trump 2.0 (so far). Like really ? > [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3dvbM6Pias With a few decades worth of hind sight, does anyone actually think that Gore would have handled 9/11 (leading into…

> Not really: this false equivalence between Democrats and GOP (especially their recent incarnation) is absolutely delusional.

You may be more interested in reading the lyrics than watching the video, the song is not about "equivalence between Democrats and GOP".

It's about the powerful who control the media and how the media is used to control the narrative. (some much worse than others) It's not only about , but also how the American people (already with an insatiable searching for satisfaction in movies, glamour and tabloids) have become slaves to it [all media/types]; glaringly obvious today vs the 2000s as media heads have gained cult status in parts, to the point of earning government appointments only this cohort would be able to appoint and not get laughed out of office.

Those who control the narrative controls the present, who controls the past -- controls the future. To bring it full circle, fitting in that rewritting reports is controlling the narrative; similar to firing a messenger of statistics

I fully agree with you, it was strange thinking; and if we're drawing parallels -- interesting how real election scandals led to GOP presidents. [scotus/hanging chads & Mueller report]

Oh, and the "delivers it best" part is biased as I like Rage; they deliver the line better than reading it imo

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#196

Post by ben_w »

Nervhq wrote: post #187
ManBeardPc wrote: post #18

Ironically climate will also rewrite the US and the rest of the world in return. More so that we are losing several important years because the US as a big contributor is now governed by complete climate deniers. Currently having the hottest summer so far, but coolest summer we will see at the same time is something I hoped to never experience.

Now do China. Four times the emissions of Europe and USA combined with no end in sight. Building 1000 coal power plants over the next two years. But do go on with your usa bashing because that's your actual motivation

Chinese emissions look like they peaked last year, even despite the economy growing (previous reductions have happened but came with caveats): https://web.archive.org/web/20250529112216/https://www.carbo...

Coal plants may still be getting installed, but relatively(!) little coal gets burned in them, because PV is just so much cheaper these days.

EV transition is also a big deal there. For all that the American (and European) car industry complains about dumping, the Chinese just buy those same EVs without any of the tariffs adding to the prices.

Practical issues remain with emissions due to metal refining, but those seem tractable, and solutions are already getting deployed outside research labs.

Still, big unsolved issues remain with emissions from concrete (IIRC the work there is currently lab research), and the scale of change needed is ~"everything everywhere except *grassland*" or ~"everything everywhere except North Korea".

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#197

Post by ben_w »

qcnguy wrote: post #172
jfengel wrote: post #24

The study questioned whether heat records are truly increasing and whether extreme weather is worsening. I thought we were past that. I thought that it was now about questioning whether it was human caused, or the size of the impact. Apparently we really are going back, and revisiting basic arithmetic.

No we never moved past that because the weather isn't getting more extreme. What happened is the left repeat this claim over and over, so people came to believe it. But where's the evidence? Are storms getting worse? No. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ace-north-atlantic-hurric... Is drought getting worse? No. https://www.drought.gov/historical-information?dataset=1&sel... For people who don't Fucking Love Science…

> Are storms getting worse? No. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ace-north-atlantic-hurric...

The graph you link to does not support your claim.

Trend line has a slope of 0.2845587086 / year increase.

Noisy graph, correlation coefficient is 0.3003115118, but still, it does not support your claim.

> Is drought getting worse? No. https://www.drought.gov/historical-information?dataset=1&sel...

Correct. This shows decreased droughts and increased flooding. Do you expect increased droughts from increased global temperatures? If so, why? Most of the world's surface is water, more heat means more water in the air.

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#198

Post by Qwertious »

cloverich wrote: post #156
aeroman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say we are largely past the second threshold too (that the warming is human caused). The last IPCC report had as the first statement in the summary for policymakers (from WG1 - the physical science group) A.1 It is unequivocal that human influence has warmed the atmosphere, ocean and land. Widespread and rapid changes in the atmosphere, ocean, cryosphere and biosphere have occurred. The previous report (from…

OP is talking about people who reject climate change. If you know many, youll likely note most do not deny climate change but instead deny that it is man made, which is an easier delusion to maintain.

> If you know many, youll likely note most do not deny climate change but instead deny that it is man made, which is an easier delusion to maintain.

This is relatively recent progress. Go back a decade and people were straight-up denying that the climate was warming.

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#199

Post by qcnguy »

ben_w wrote: post #197
qcnguy wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we never moved past that because the weather isn't getting more extreme. What happened is the left repeat this claim over and over, so people came to believe it. But where's the evidence? Are storms getting worse? No. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ace-north-atlantic-hurric... Is drought getting worse? No. https://www.drought.gov/historical-information?dataset=1&sel... For people who don't Fucking Love Science…

> Are storms getting worse? No. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ace-north-atlantic-hurric... The graph you link to does not support your claim. Trend line has a slope of 0.2845587086 / year increase. Noisy graph, correlation coefficient is 0.3003115118, but still, it does not support your claim. > Is drought getting worse? No. https://www.drought.gov/historical-information?dataset=1&sel... Correct. This shows decr…

My claim is correct! A trend line calculated for any natural dataset will never be exactly zero. This doesn't mean humans need to speak in scientific notation as if we are robots. You are well aware of that, so please stop playing silly word games that don't advance the discussion. "Is it getting worse? No" is a perfectly reasonable way to describe storm data, which is why governments say the same thing:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/understanding-...

"The UK State of the Climate report states that there are no compelling trends in storminess when considering maximum gust speeds over the last four decades. More comprehensive studies across the North Atlantic region have reached similar conclusions."

If you're going to try and argue that "no trend" isn't the same as "no compelling trend".... please, just don't. Life is short.

You've mis-interpreted the second graph. It doesn't show any increased flooding. It shows a very minor and unimportant trend in wetness. The trend is unimportant because increases in wetness don't imply increases in flooding, as the relationship is non-linear. Flooding has not increased so although I didn't mention flooding I could have added it to the list. See "Floods and Heavy Precipitation at the Global Scale: 100-Year Analysis and 180-Year Reconstruction" in JGR Atmospheres, Renard et al.

Re: US to rewrite its past national climate reports

#200

Post by ben_w »

qcnguy wrote: post #199
ben_w wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are storms getting worse? No. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ace-north-atlantic-hurric... The graph you link to does not support your claim. Trend line has a slope of 0.2845587086 / year increase. Noisy graph, correlation coefficient is 0.3003115118, but still, it does not support your claim. > Is drought getting worse? No. https://www.drought.gov/historical-information?dataset=1&sel... Correct. This shows decr…

My claim is correct! A trend line calculated for any natural dataset will never be exactly zero. This doesn't mean humans need to speak in scientific notation as if we are robots. You are well aware of that, so please stop playing silly word games that don't advance the discussion. "Is it getting worse? No" is a perfectly reasonable way to describe storm data, which is why governments say the same thing: https://www.…

> My claim is correct!

No, it is not.

More precisely: it is not justified by the evidence you chose to provide.

> A trend line calculated for any natural dataset will never be exactly zero. This doesn't mean humans need to speak in scientific notation as if we are robots. You are well aware of that, so please stop playing silly word games that don't advance the discussion. The phrase "No trend" is a perfectly reasonable way to describe storm data, which is why governments say the same thing:

You cannot say the opposite of what words mean, expect to not get called out on this (especially on a place like Hacker News), then when you are called out expect to get a positive reaction to saying "boo, stop playing word games".

The average for the first 50 years is 79.24 units. The average for the most recent 50 years is 106.64.

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