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Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

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Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#191

Post by grafmax »

anonfordays wrote: post #182
grafmax wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Alligator Alcatraz and CECOT, people are held without charges, denied timely access to legal counsel, and prevented from having a fair hearing to challenge their detention. At CECOT, transfers from the US occur without notice to attorneys or families, in a foreign justice system that has suspended many basic rights. The conditions at these facilities are inhumane and deliberately so. The purpose is to punish peopl…

>At Alligator Alcatraz and CECOT CECOT is not in the US. >people are held without charges You do not have to be criminally charged to be deported under civil immigration statues. The years of leftists smugly proclaiming "it's a civil violation, not a crime" ended up being a self own. >denied timely access to legal counsel Again, civil proceedings in the US do not ensure a right to legal counsel. >and prevented from h…

CECOT is part of US mass deportation operations. Sending someone to a concentration camp doesn’t become justified when the destination is a foreign country. In fact the US plans to expand the number of domestic and foreign concentration camps.

> civil proceedings in the US do not ensure a right to legal counsel.

You’re appealing to the law. But due process is violated even if there is a legal framework to justify it. It is a human right not a legal right. The history of concentration camps is full of legal supports placed there by authoritarian governments. But legal justifications don’t exonerate governments mass incarcerating people without due process.

> They're being temporarily detained for deportation, there's nothing to challenge.

Sure there is. Whether a person should be deported or not is absolutely worth challenging.

> The average detention time is short before they're deported to their home country.

Average detention times are around 50 days. Some people crossing at borders for example can be turned back fairly quickly. Others are held indefinitely.

> It’s not punishment

Besides the inhuman conditions that exceed most US prisons, multiple officials have stated that the intent behind Alligator Alcatraz is deterrence.

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#192

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

estearum wrote: post #188
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even theoretically that's not true. But if we stoop to the pragmatic, sometimes they win without even a majority of those still not disillusioned enough to stop voting. >It has nothing to do with little kids' aspirations to be a leader. If not that, then there's nothing about voting that I give much of a shit about. Nor do tens of millions of others. And if he helps to rain destruction upon such systems as you would…

You don't think it's theoretically or pragmatically true that elected leaders are constrained/guided/informed by the feedback generated by elections? It seems like maybe you read my "it has nothing to do with X" as meaning "it is not desirable if X." Otherwise not sure what warranted that hysterical response.

>You don't think it's theoretically or pragmatically true that elected leaders are constrained/guided/informed by the feedback generated by elections?

A "mandate" isn't what you just described above. It's always true that those who weasel their way into office have been influenced by someone or someones, but to call that a "mandate" when it amounts to some tiny non-majority fraction of the (even voting age) population is bizarre. Is this some meme joke that I'm just clueless about, because it's difficult to take you seriously.

>not sure what warranted that hysterical response.

An even hand typed the words with a calm heart, and no other emotion other than exasperation. Your takes are pretty far from reality.

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#193

Post by estearum »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #192
estearum wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think it's theoretically or pragmatically true that elected leaders are constrained/guided/informed by the feedback generated by elections? It seems like maybe you read my "it has nothing to do with X" as meaning "it is not desirable if X." Otherwise not sure what warranted that hysterical response.

>You don't think it's theoretically or pragmatically true that elected leaders are constrained/guided/informed by the feedback generated by elections? A "mandate" isn't what you just described above. It's always true that those who weasel their way into office have been influenced by someone or someones, but to call that a "mandate" when it amounts to some tiny non-majority fraction of the (even voting age) populatio…

In your model, is a simple majority a necessary feature of a mandate?

And what’s the scope of the majority? A simple majority on each individual decision?

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#194

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

estearum wrote: post #187
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find it extremely hard to believe you have not heard about the Kilmar Abrego case? Yes. And to the best of my knowledge he is not a citizen.

Which does not preclude him from having due process rights, as SCOTUS ruled 9-0 (and has been reaffirmed unequivocally by about 180 years of case law).

His due process rights were "if he protests that he is a citizen, then they must make effort to determine if that is the case with haste, and release him if it checks out".

He did not assert citizenship, they did not violate due process rights. No other process is due him. Anyone claiming that it's a violation of due process rights doesn't know what they mean, though for a moment I had hope for you... you sort of described them, or at least hinted at them, but you're unable to apply what you described to this situation. Due process rights can't and won't keep non-citizens in this country if they are trying to avoid deportation, and shouldn't ever. Non-citizens only have the revocable-for-any-reason-or-none privilege of visiting, and that only if they get the visa.

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#195

Post by estearum »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #194
estearum wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which does not preclude him from having due process rights, as SCOTUS ruled 9-0 (and has been reaffirmed unequivocally by about 180 years of case law).

His due process rights were "if he protests that he is a citizen, then they must make effort to determine if that is the case with haste, and release him if it checks out". He did not assert citizenship, they did not violate due process rights. No other process is due him. Anyone claiming that it's a violation of due process rights doesn't know what they mean, though for a moment I had hope for you... you sort of des…

Why do you think SCOTUS disagreed with you 9-0?

What do you know that they don’t?

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#196

Post by surebut »

lolive wrote: post #98
chpatrick wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard people say it's basically SAP with some spooky mystique for marketing.

Wake me up when SAP provides productivity tools of the level of PalantirFoundry’s Pipeline Builder, Ontology Manager, Data Lineage and Workshop.

You are aware the product names are cognitive obfuscation that the underlying implementation is just vanilla open source data modeling services right?

Linux. Windows. Both are "operating systems"?

What actual novel data collating and anomaly detection algorithms does Palantir implement that no one else does? Oh that's right these services are all just different corporate branding atop the same old open source stacks and libraries everyone uses.

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#197

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

grafmax wrote: post #191
anonfordays wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At Alligator Alcatraz and CECOT CECOT is not in the US. >people are held without charges You do not have to be criminally charged to be deported under civil immigration statues. The years of leftists smugly proclaiming "it's a civil violation, not a crime" ended up being a self own. >denied timely access to legal counsel Again, civil proceedings in the US do not ensure a right to legal counsel. >and prevented from h…

CECOT is part of US mass deportation operations. Sending someone to a concentration camp doesn’t become justified when the destination is a foreign country. In fact the US plans to expand the number of domestic and foreign concentration camps. > civil proceedings in the US do not ensure a right to legal counsel. You’re appealing to the law. But due process is violated even if there is a legal framework to justify it.…

>Sending someone to a concentration camp doesn’t become justified when the destination is a foreign country.

If illegal immigrants were to voluntarily deport before becoming detained, could they avoid incarceration at CECOT? If the answer is "yes", then it seems their own actions/decisions cause this. Why then should I have sympathy for them?

>But due process is violated even if there is a legal framework to justify it.

What is the exact nature of their due process rights in that situation?

What process is due, exactly, someone who is detained because they have no right to be in this country?

>Whether a person should be deported or not is absolutely worth challenging

The only people who have a say in the matter on whether or not a non-citizen should be allowed to stay or forcibly deported is a citizen. If you'd like to make the case that they should be allowed to stay (as a citizen), then I am willing to hear your argument.

I'm not willing to hear theirs, and as much as I can influence my government, I will demand that it be unwilling to hear their (non-citizens') arguments as well. In court, or otherwise.

>Besides the inhuman conditions that exceed most US prisons, multiple officials have stated that the intent behind Alligator Alcatraz is deterrence.

If you remove a trespasser from your property, it is not punishment... it is remedy. If the remedy (for some reason) deters future trespassing, that still doesn't make it punishment.

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#198

Post by themafia »

api wrote: post #103
TrackerFF wrote: post #45

We received a presentation/demo of their products when I worked in the gov (not the US gov. though) a couple of years ago. They seemed, okay? I mean nothing seemed mind-blowing. I worked on surveillance in a specific sector, where interagency collaboration is important. Hence why Palantir pitched their tools. I'm not sure how they've managed to blow up like that. Do they have some extensive network with gov. official…

They're blowing up because they've got allies in government right now steering them contracts, which is par for the course for big government contracting. Elections are to a certain extent a contest between different camps to swing at the Piñata of Federal funding, with the winner taking the current batch of candy. I kinda think Palantir is GenZ TRW, or at least the data analytics sections of TRW that did things like…

> because they've got allies in government right now steering them contracts

Is that because palantir takes them out for golf outings and steaks? Or is it because palantir promises certain results and outcomes to them once the product is in place?

> There's a ton of conspiracy theories about them because their founders are tech-right ideologues.

Yea, it's just the ideology of their founders, it has _nothing_ to do with their actions and partnerships.

> I'd pretty much guarantee that if we'd elected the most mega-woke president in US history instead of Trump and they wanted to commission a huge government data project to analyze the entire American workforce to look for racial, ethic, and sexual orientation biases, Palantir would bid on that contract.

"They're evil and they don't care who's buying."

> but the bad stuff they're doing is the fault of your elected representatives.

That's not how morality, ethics, or the law works.

> People voted for this.

Literally _no one_ voted for this. The people who wanted DOGE to clean up government spending did not in any way think that all federal data, including their own private medical data, would be, or even need to be, fed into a private company to be used in service of the problem.

This is ridiculous apologia for evil. What is wrong with this site? If there's even a single dollar of profit on the table then civil rights are the first thing the "hacker news types" sacrifice. It makes you all seem gross and unapproachable.

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#199

Post by AndrewKemendo »

prng2021 wrote: post #63
TrackerFF wrote: post #45

We received a presentation/demo of their products when I worked in the gov (not the US gov. though) a couple of years ago. They seemed, okay? I mean nothing seemed mind-blowing. I worked on surveillance in a specific sector, where interagency collaboration is important. Hence why Palantir pitched their tools. I'm not sure how they've managed to blow up like that. Do they have some extensive network with gov. official…

I’d like to hear from others, but my assumption has been that they’re the ones that 1) have staff with the required clearance to work on DoD projects and 2) the required security and compliance certifications in their product. On the latter, it’s not easy to provide a product that is DoD IL5 certified, so that is a differentiator for them.

This is the actual answer

I was in the IC when Palantir was being rolled out and took a bunch of their training courses at their facilities in Georgetown

They have the data storage that complies with DCID and RMF ATO requirements across every IL and compartment

Before Palantir the only thing that we had was Analyst Notebook and you had to have a CD to run it and manage your own data repos locally

Palantir was entirely browser based and you didn’t have to manage data at all so they killed AN almost immediately

Re: Palantir is extending its reach even further into government

#200

Post by belter »

lolive wrote: post #126
chpatrick wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really glad I don't know what any of those things are.

They are the tools why PalantirFoundry is worth every penny [not entirely true note: PalantirFoundry is a lowCode/noCode stack on top of a Spark cluster] Pipeline Builder : https://youtu.be/WIQA7u1tbsY?si=iG-N9xHpUPPVAqDX OntologyManager: https://youtu.be/SOW0IA_I0bk?si=u5eha0o-yrn4pHvu Workshop: https://youtu.be/Uh0zpMUR6wY?si=BClTTbch70ZolRCb

I am sorry but these look like very basic ETL/UI Dashboard tools. Is this all they got?
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