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Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

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Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the dev population mostly uses free search, just based on the fact no one has told me to “Kagi it” yet.

When I need a facial tissue I ask for a Kleenex even if the box says Puffs. Because who says "pass me the Puffs"?

I've been curious of that phenomenon, why not juat ask "pass me a tissue?"

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cursor is an IDE. You can use its powerful (but occasionally wrong) autocomplete, and start asking it to do small coding tasks using the Ctrl+L side window.

I don't want to leave my IDE

I don't either but unfortunately Cursor is better than all the other plugins for IDEs like JetBrains. I just tab over to cursor and prompt it, then edit the code in my IDE of choice.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#193
post #141
post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

The models I can run locally aren't as good yet, and are way more expensive to operate. Once it becomes economical to run a Claude 4 class model locally you'll see a lot more people doing that. The closest you can get right now might be Kimi K2 on a pair of 512GB Mac Studios, at a cost of about $20,000.

Have you considered the Framework Desktop setup they mentioned in their announcement blog post[0]? Just marketing fluff, or is there any merit to it?

> The top-end Ryzen AI Max+ 395 configuration with 128GB of memory starts at just $1999 USD. This is excellent for gaming, but it is a truly wild value proposition for AI workloads. Local AI inference has been heavily restricted to date by the limited memory capacity and high prices of consumer and workstation graphics cards. With Framework Desktop, you can run giant, capable models like Llama 3.3 70B Q6 at real-time conversational speed right on your desk. With USB4 and 5Gbit Ethernet networking, you can connect multiple systems or Mainboards to run even larger models like the full DeepSeek R1 671B.

I'm futsing around with setups, but adding up the specs would give 384GB of VRAM and 512GB total memory, at a cost of about $10,000-$12,000. This is all highly dubious napkin math, and I hope to see more experimentation in this space.

There's of course the moving target of cloud costs and performance, so analysing break-even time is even more precarious. So if this sort of setup would work, its cost-effectiveness is a mystery to me.

[0] https://frame.work/be/en/blog/introducing-the-framework-desk...

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#194
post #7

> Coding activities should be performed mostly with: Claude Opus 4 I've been going down to sonnet for coding over opus. maybe i am just writing dumb code

Opus is too expensive and I find it goes way off the rails often (just writing way way too much. Maybe that could be controlled with a better prompt on my end). Sonnet gives me more realistic code that isn't too overengineered.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#195
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programming used to be (and still is, to a large extent) an activity that can be done with open and free tools. Yet JetBrains has been a business longer than some of my colleagues have been alive, and Microsoft’s Visual Basic/C++/Studio made writing software for Windows much easier, and did not come cheap.

I see a big difference: I do use Jetbrains IDEs (they are nice), but I can switch to vim (or vscode) any time if I need to (e.g., let's say Jetbrains increase their price to a point that doesn't make sense, or perhaps they introduce a pervasive feature that cannot be disabled). The problem with paid LLMs is that one cannot easily switch to open-source ones (because they are not as good as the paid ones). So, it's a d…

Seems the same to me. If you are using the llm as a tool to build your product (rather than a dependency within it for functionality) you can easily switch to a different model, or IDE/Agentic-coder in the same way you can switch between vim and emacs. It might be a `worse` experience for you or have fewer feature, but you aren't locked in, other than in the sense of your preference for productivity. In fact in seems likely to mee that the tools I'll be using a year from now are going to be different than today - and almost certainly a different model will be leading. For example google surprised everyone with the quality of 2.5.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#196
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a hardcore vim user 10 years ago, but now I just use PyCharm to work. I'm paid to solve problems, not to futz around with vim configs. Can you make vim work roughly the same way? Probably you can get pretty close. But how many hours do I have to sink into the config? A lot. And suddenly the PyCharm license is cheap. And it's exactly the same thing with LLMs. You want hand crafted beautiful code, untainted by AI…

> I was a hardcore vim user 10 years ago, but now I just use PyCharm to work. I'm paid to solve problems, not to futz around with vim configs. The reason I don't like those arguments is that they merge two orthogonal stuff: Solving problems and optimizing your tooling. You can optimize PyCharm just as much you can fiddle with Vim's config. And people are solving with problems with Vim just as you do with an IDE. It's…

>The reason I don't like those arguments is that they merge two orthogonal stuff: Solving problems and optimizing your tooling. You can optimize PyCharm just as much you can fiddle with Vim's config.

But you’re ignoring that the “optimizing tooling” is for the goal of making it easier for you. Its spending time now to decrease time spent in the long term.

I spent over a decade with Emacs as my sole editor and have since spent over a decade with PyCharm. Day 1 of PyCharm already had practically everything that it took a decade to get working for Emacs, and more. It was pre-optimized for me, so I was able to spend more time working on my code. Did I need to spend time optimizing Emacs? No. But doing so added intellisense and the ability to jump around the codebase very quickly. You _can_ spend just as much time optimizing Emacs, but I didn’t _have_ to in order to get the same result. Or have I spent that much time optimizing it since, for even more functionality.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#197
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Chatting with a llm was cutting edge for 3 years it’s only within the last 8-10 months with Claude code and Gemini cli do we have the next big change in how we interact with llms

How is Claude Code and Gemini CLI any different from using Cursor in agent mode? It's basically the same exact thing.

I can't speak to how they're technically different, but in practice, Cursor was basically useless for me, and Claude Code works well. Even with Cursor using Claude's models.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#198
The most interesting and divergent part of this post is this bit:

"Don’t use agents or things like editor with integrated coding agents."

He argues that the copy/paste back and forth with the web UI is essential for maintaining control and providing the correct context.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#199
post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

LLMS are basically free? Yes you're rate limited but I have just started paying for them now, before I'd bounce around between the providers but still free

The most cutting edge-models aren't usually free, at least at first.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it even more sad when people come out of the woodwork on every LLM post to tell us that our positive experiences using LLMs are imagined and we just haven’t realized how bad they are yet.

We don't just tell you they were imagined, we can provide receipts. https://metr.org/blog/2025-07-10-early-2025-ai-experienced-o...

> We do not provide evidence that:

> AI systems do not currently speed up many or most software developers

> We do not claim that our developers or repositories represent a majority or plurality of software development work

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