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A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

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Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#191

I agree with the sentiment here, the thing is, I've noticed that the newer generations are using frameworks like Next.js as default for building simple static websites. That's their bare bone start. The era of plain html + css (and maybe a sprinkle of js) feels like it's fading away, sadly.

Next.js bundles the code and aggressively minifies it, because their base use case is to deploy on lambdas or very small servers. A static website using next would be quite optimal in terms of bundle size.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#192
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some people who are experimenting with using shorter certificates, i.e. shorter certificate chains, to reduce traffic. If you're a large enough site, then you can save a ton of traffic every day.

Please though, for the love of dog, have your site serve a complete chain and don't have the browser or software stack do AIA chasing.

That is a really good point. Googles certificate service can issue a certificate signed directly by Google, but not even Google themselves are using it. They use the one that's cross signed by GlobalSign (I think).

But yes, ensure that you're serving the entire chain, but keep the chain as short as possible.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#193
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood math / latex display via client side js. Why can't this be precomputed into html and css?

> I never understood math / latex display via client side js. Why can't this be precomputed into html and css? It can be. But like I mentioned earlier, my personal website is a hobby project I've been running since my university days. It's built with Common Lisp (CL), which is part of the fun for me. It's not just about the end result, but also about enjoying the process. While precomputing HTML and CSS is definitely…

Is it safe to say the website is your passion project?

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#194
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on who your clients are and where they are. https://www.mcmaster.com/ was found last year to be doing some real magic to make it load literally as fast as possible for the crapiest computers possible.

Do you have any idea what they actually did? It would be interesting to study. That site really is blazing fast.

I was intrigued that they request pages in the background on mouse-over, then swap on click. I decided to do likewise on my blog, since my pages are about a dozen kb of HTML, and I aggressively cache things.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#195
post #114

The geostationary satellite example, while interesting, is kinda obsolete in the age of Starlink

Starlink is only 1 option in the satellite internet market. There are too many embedded systems and legacy infrastructure that its not reasonable to assume that 'satellite internet' means Starlink. Maybe in 20 years, but not today.

That's like saying vacuum tubes are only one option in the radio market.

The quality of connection is so much better, and as you can get a starlink mini with a 50GB plan for very little money, its already in the zone that just one worker could grab his own and bring it on the rig to use on his free time and to share.

Starlink terminals aren't "infrastructure". Campers often toss one on their roof without even leaving the vehicle. Easier than moving a chair. So, as I said, the geostationary legacy system immediately becomes entirely obsolete other than for redundancy, and is kinda irrelevant for uses like browsing the web.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you've got to eat something. Now, if mcdonalds padded 5kB of calories of a cheesburger with 10.000 kilobytes of calories in wasted food like news sites doo, it would be a different story. The ratio would be 200 kilos of wasted food for 100grams of usable beef.

You don't need to eat burgers though. You can eat food that consumes a small fraction of energy, calorie, land, and animal input of a burger. And we go to McDonalds because it's a dopamine luxury. It's just an inconvenient truth for people who only care about the environmental impact of things that don't require a behavior change on their part. And that reveals an insincere, performative, scoldy aspect of their posit…

Sure, but beef tastes good. I mean.. there are better ways to eat beef than mixed with soy at mcdonalds, but still...

What benefit does an individual get from downloading tens of megabytes of useless data to get ~5kB of useful data in an article? It wastes download time, bandwidth, users time (having to close the autoplaying ad), power/battery, etc.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#197
post #7

The overlap of people that don’t know what TCP Slow Start is and those that should care about their website loading a few milliseconds faster is incredibly small. A startup should focus on, well, starting up, not performance; a corporation large enough to optimise speed on that level will have a team of experienced SREs that know over which detail to obsess.

When your approach is "I don't care because I have more important things to focus on", you never care. There's always something you can do that's more important to a company than optimising the page load to align with the TCP window size used to access your server. This is why almost all applications and websites are slow and terrible these days.

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Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#198

The article has IMO two flawed arguments: 1. There is math for how long it takes to send even one packet over satellite connection (~1600ms). Its a weak argument for the 14kb rule since there is no comparison with a larger website. 10 packets wont necessarily take 16 seconds. 2. There is a mention that images on webpage are included in this 14kb rule. In what case are images inlined to a page’s initial load? If this…

> In what case are images inlined to a page’s initial load? Low resolution thumbnails that are blurred via CSS filters over which the real images fade in once downloaded. Done properly it usually only adds a few hundred bytes per image for above the fold images. I don’t know if many bloggers do that, though. I do on my blog and it’s probably a feature on most blogging platforms (like Wordpress or Medium) but it’s mor…

[deleted]

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#199
post #7

The overlap of people that don’t know what TCP Slow Start is and those that should care about their website loading a few milliseconds faster is incredibly small. A startup should focus on, well, starting up, not performance; a corporation large enough to optimise speed on that level will have a team of experienced SREs that know over which detail to obsess.

Doesn’t have to be a choice it could just be the default. My billion cells/checkboxes[1] demos both use datastar and so are just over 10kb. It can make a big difference on mobile networks and 3G. I did my own tests and being over 14kb often meant an extra 3s load time on bad connections. The nice thing is I got this for free because the datastar maintainer cares about tcp slow star even though I might not.

- [1] https://checkboxes.andersmurphy.com

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#200
post #7

The overlap of people that don’t know what TCP Slow Start is and those that should care about their website loading a few milliseconds faster is incredibly small. A startup should focus on, well, starting up, not performance; a corporation large enough to optimise speed on that level will have a team of experienced SREs that know over which detail to obsess.

If you make something that, well, wastes my time because you feel it is, well, not important, then, well, I don't want to use it.
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