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Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

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Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#191

Post by wccrawford »

lenerdenator wrote: post #75

Honest question: What does this really bring to the table as a diagnostic tool for autism? By the time that you're evaluating gait, you're evaluating a lot of other things, too, since autism usually starts appearing during childhood. Obvious things, like trouble socializing, learning, and processing stimuli. I'm not a doctor or involved in any sort of diagnosis, treatment, or curing of diseases or conditions, but giv…

I was recently diagnosed. They told me multiple times that it's very hard to diagnose an adult because we have so many coping mechanisms at a high level.

This is just one more tool they can use to help determine that diagnosis. Their tests/questions covered a lot of ground, with a large focus on things from childhood.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#192

Post by ndr »

benreesman wrote: post #93

I'm sure everyone involved means well, but we are really starting to embrace a culture of defining "normal" down to some arbitrary amount that seems to have no floor. I'm all for making sure that effective treatments are made available to anyone they might help, but couldn't a lot of this be addressed society just...being tolerant of diversity in people? Gating everyone through "thrives in American High School" as a…

It's even worse when one uses "common" as proxy for "normal"/"healthy".

EG see: https://x.com/hjluks/status/1943754923570520483

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#193

Post by yapyap »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #133
novaleaf wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lots of households don't wear shoes indoors. heel stomping around is much, much louder than ball-walking.

I forget to wear shoes outdoors unless I'm getting in a car, and I invariably step on sharp things. The bottoms of my feet are literally like leather though.

You must live in a great green region I imagine

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#194

Post by cardanome »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #159
cardanome wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've got autism and the biggest thing that stands out is the way you walk... I don't think dragging a kid to a doctor to be told they're not normal is really all that beneficial. There are very strict criteria on how people are to be diagnosed. More importantly you are NOT getting diagnosed if you are just happy and don't need any help. You can NOT be diagnosed with autism without any support needs. Same as yo…

I hear this a lot but also know a lot of people who were put on meds when they were young and didn't really understand what was going on. I also have an adult friend put on an antipsychotic to treat their moderate depression. They went through horrifying side effects while doctors kept telling them to stick with it. They're going through even more horrifying side effects during the third week of their withdrawal. The…

> to treat their moderate depression.

I criticized depression being too easily diagnosed myself in the post above.

Autism and ADHD are clearly underdiagnosed. I have posted some sources here: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=cardanome#44586532

Maybe depression meds are given too easily. Not my area of expertise. Might also specific to the US. Getting medication here in Germany seems to be much harder. However, this has NOTHING to do with autism and ADHD diagnosis.

It does not mean that ADHD meds are given too easily. They are a completely different thing.

> But if we're at a point where we're nitpicking and saying, "Your kid walks on their toes. That's bad. Let's get them diagnosed. Then get some meds", yeah, it's horrifying and absolutely indefensible.

That is not what is happening. That is pure fearmongering.

First of all there is no medication for autism. Second of all, no nobody get diagnosed for walking funny. That is not how any of this works.

I repeat, they are not getting medicated because medication for autism does not exist and probably can't even exist.

And even for ADHD, meds are one option. You don't have to take them. They work exceptionally well for some people but not at all for others. Again, there is therapy and coaching.

> hat makes them sit and fold laundry all day

This is not how this works.

The meds help with executive dysfunction. It when you want to do a thing, know how to do a thing, it is important to do it but you can't do it because your brain just doesn't cooperate. Medication helps you do the things you want to do. If you want to play video games all day, you will play video games all day, with or without medication.

Simplified, people with ADHD have lower levels of dopamine. So they are constantly understimulated. Boring tasks hurt to do. Medication helps to get their dopamine level up so they can have the same level of stimulation as a neurotypical person that watches paint dry. They don't get you high, they get you from deficit to base level.

And again

> in the 90s

We were ignorant of many things in the 90s. I don't want to invalidate your experience, surly these problems did exist, I am just saying that you childhood experiences might not be representative for the world in 2025.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#195

Post by kruffalon »

chneu wrote: post #171
bluefirebrand wrote: post #17

I suspect that there are signs of autism or other neurodivergences encoded in a lot of our body language, and we're really only starting to qualify what those behaviors are But we also should be careful not to over-diagnose neurodivergence based on outward behavior. Not everyone who fidgets is ADHD

I have several friends who are therapist/mental health professionals. They've all mentioned parents shopping around for autism diagnosis for their children who have ADHD. Apparently ADHD isn't cool, but autism is weirdly seen as "better". Over diagnosis is already happening. Just like adhd and ocd.

One reason could be that the diagnosises give access to differemt kinds if accomodation (and that contrary to popular belief: most parents just want whats best for their kids and are willing to fight hard for it).

In many places the only help you get with ADHD are amphetamines while autism can give access to a range of resources and accomodations.

Unfortunately it is often difficult to receive help without diagnosis.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#196

Post by aleph_minus_one »

chneu wrote: post #181
flanked-evergl wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society is tolerant of diversity in people.

Serious question: what's your skin color and where do you live? Edit: looks like white guy from Norway which explains why you'd think that.

> Serious question: what's your skin color and where do you live?

The obsession with skin color and race seems to be a very US-American thing.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#197

Post by cardanome »

strken wrote: post #102
cardanome wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact people with ADHD have also their peculiar walks: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H1YsnuaYY-g > based on outward behavior Yes, neurodivergence can only be diagnosed based on how you work on the inside. It is not possible to diagnose based on outside behavior as people can show symptoms very differently and can mask their symptoms. And no, you obviously can not diagnose people based on how they walk. If anything…

> Yes, neurodivergence can only be diagnosed based on how you work on the inside. I don't think this is exactly true. We don't involuntarily commit people to psych wards after a long and complicated investigation to understand their mental state. Diagnoses can be made extremely quickly and with little understanding of the interior state of a patient. > Both autism are ADHD are vastly under-diagnosed especially in wom…

> because our diagnostic threshold for tallness has lowered?

The threshold for being diagnosed as autistic has increased in recent years. As Asperger is not a separate diagnosis anymore but is part of ASD, some people that might have gotten an Asperger diagnosis would not get an ASD diagnosis today.

Again, a diagnosis requires that you have care needs. If you don't, you will not be diagnosed. There is no slippery slope of lowering standards.

There have always been neurodivergent people. Not long ago, here in Germany autistic children were systematically murdered during the Nazi regime.

The difference is that neurodivergent people don't have to hide anymore as much. We finally have at least a bit of a voice.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#198

Post by cardanome »

chneu wrote: post #173
cardanome wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact people with ADHD have also their peculiar walks: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H1YsnuaYY-g > based on outward behavior Yes, neurodivergence can only be diagnosed based on how you work on the inside. It is not possible to diagnose based on outside behavior as people can show symptoms very differently and can mask their symptoms. And no, you obviously can not diagnose people based on how they walk. If anything…

Autism is being over diagnosed in the US for sure. It might be different in Germany but I know plenty of folks who have been diagnosed autistic after just a conversation or two with their therapist. I know multiple therapists who have had parents try to get their kids an autism diagnosis because they think it'll help on admissions to colleges. So be aware that what YOU experience is not what is happening elsewhere. A…

That sounds like the same moral panic trans people face. Oh, the children are turned trans by social media and all that shite.

No mentally healthy person is going to pretend to be autistic. There is still a huge stigma against it despite some parts of social media being progressive. I don't think a neurotypical person could even easily "fake" it. If you fit in with neurodivergent people, you probably are yourself.

People have always been gay, trans, neurodivergent, whatever. They just had to hide. Once they are tolerated by society, reactionaries will spread moral panic saying "Everyone is X these days". There were always who they were.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#199

Post by cardanome »

wvh wrote: post #172
ghushn3 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree, as an autistic person. And a lot of autistic people hold the belief that, "My autism is not a problem, your expectations that I behave like you do are the problem." If I need to move a little differently, or not hold eye contact when I speak, the fact that I get made fun of is the problem. If we just accepted, "hey, some people are like that" more, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems.

I suppose, beyond making fun of which is unacceptable, that some behaviour is considered "bad behaviour" if it would come from a "non-particular" person. People are highly sensitive to eye contact, voice tone and other subtleties to gage how the other person is feeling and how much of a threat they are. Similarly, overtaking conversations or appearing disinterested are also faux-pas in normal conversation and may ind…

> you'd just start any conversation with "hey, I'm autistic, so if I appear a bit weird..."

Then people will criticize you for making autism your whole identity.

Which is a silly point to make but people can be pricks. Not saying you gave bad advice, just saying, it a damned if you do, damned if you don't with some people. I think it is generally good to be open about it, if not just to filter out intolerant people faster.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#200

Post by sokoloff »

shafyy wrote: post #148
fsckboy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe it's being 15 that sucks for 85%, and has nothing to do with high school at all.

Maybe it's also being 15 in today's modern society that sucks.

Being 15 four decades ago wasn’t a live-action Disney movie either.
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