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Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

blog.thunderbird.net

191–200 of 297 posts

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#191
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the bug was filed in 2008. Back then, Rust was Graydon Hoare's personal project that Mozilla wouldn't start funding until a year later. Rust was written in OCaml and the famed borrow checker wouldn't be in place until 2010. The first public release was v0.1 in 2012 and the first stable release 1.0 wouldn't happen till 2015. The language was very different back then with sigils, garbage collection and green thr…

The op is being facetious

I really can't tell them apart. My fault. But people also get too passionate about it sometimes.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#192
post #189
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof that is bad. > How is it not top 1 priority to fix it? Maybe because it is very rare? I have been using thunderbird for 10 years now on various OSes and never had issues.

That may be but i immediately uninstalled Thunderbird from all my devices upon seeing that its low priority and unassigned. I wont be using any email client that can break and delete all my emails from local and the server. Why would i? It may be a lottery but it isnt one i want to play. The fact that they see this as low priority shows theyre morons. Who would say 'yes please' to an email client that might permanent…

When i say they're morons, i mean it in terms of them not understanding the reputational and trust damage this can cause, via the thread, the low priority, lack of assignment, or word of mouth.

Far too focused on the engineering POV than the optics and trust/reputation damage. My kind of moronic, but still moronic.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#193
I used TB for a decade or more, then in the end quit, because it was bloating too much. It was a browser doing email, not an email client.

I then used Claws for a while, but came to really dislike it - lots of small UI issues.

Then I wrote my own email client in Python, Postgres for store, Apache/HTML front-end. That's been fantastic. Python does all the heavy lifting, you need to design a decent database.

Now I add features as I need them - few days I added the ability to specify how many times an email should be sent, when you need to spam the recipient for some reason (say, a company which is spamming you and is not responding in a reasonable or timely manner to GDPR requests).

The basic client design I've not seen elsewhere - but I've not used many clients so it may very well exist. There's a single inbox of email, and you define sets, and a set defines what is shown. So you don't move emails around between folders, you define what's shown, and you can have multiple sets concurrently - so for example, "inbound", "last 24 hours".

There are also a bunch of other small features which I've had in time for a long time but have never seen. For example, the from/to addresses have the localpart and domain separately, so you can order by domain. There's immediate in-page filtering, too, for each column, so you can just enter a few letters of what you know is the origin domain and bingo, there you go.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and then they simultaneously determined "yeah, we might eat your data. Lets not warn anyone about that AT ALL, lets keep the feature activated and let them users lose their data". This behavior ought to be criminal.

Make no mistake - I am not absolving them of leaving this issue unaddressed lol just saying if it was easy they’d likely have handled it. It’s probably difficult or they just don’t know, so they keep putting it off and decided that not enough users are affected for real consequences (which is wrong to do)

i fully understand it might be very hard to fix, but to know about it for that long, and not warn people or disable the functionality is unforgivable

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#196
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and then they simultaneously determined "yeah, we might eat your data. Lets not warn anyone about that AT ALL, lets keep the feature activated and let them users lose their data". This behavior ought to be criminal.

It's not criminal, but you're entitled to a full refund of Thunderbird in the event it happens.

an option I will be making use of now.

And I know its not criminal, im saying it SHOULD be criminal not to warn people about this. its more than a decade

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#198
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpick: not all bugs have to be reproducible to be taken seriously. Defensive programming, and adding extra logging could be a mitigation to avoid future problems, or to help fixing them in the future.

Kinda off topic, but I've been searching for good introduction and best practises for defensive programming, but never really found much. Any recommendations?

I feel like this is sort of like reading a book to get better at self defense. Yeah, you'll probably pick up a few interesting things that may be of questionable use. But when you train in martial arts, you often get to go through the motions and put the moves into practice. Even then "real" fights will feel quite different and a lot of the stuff you've learned will likely fly out the window. If you've been in real fights a lot, you've begun to internalize your training and your moves become more like instinct. It's quite difficult to go from book knowledge to instinct without getting beat up a lot in between I think. The real valuable lessons come from building something that breaks and getting to fix it yourself.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#199
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, you don't understand. Fixing the bug before reproducing it would violate the process .

How do you fix a bug you can't reproduce? It's a genuine question because I'm puzzled here. A very small number of users have this bug (and tbf, it's a really bad bug), and are unable to consistently reproduce it and it seems none of the developers have been able to (the seemingly random nature of the bug occurring is not helping). How is it supposed to be fixed?

> How do you fix a bug you can't reproduce?

You strangle it from the edges.

Re: Thunderbird 140 “Eclipse”

#200
post #169
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not criminal, but you're entitled to a full refund of Thunderbird in the event it happens.

Just because something is free certainly does not make it ethical, and it doesn't even mean it should be legal.

No, but they're rather limited in ways to reimburse you or offer "justice". Putting the Thunderbird team in jail doesn't help you out.

Hell, what if the offending commit was 2 decades ago by someone who's cut off all contact regarding code since?

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