Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Local-first software (2019)

inkandswitch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 308 posts

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#191

Post by swsieber »

monkeyelite wrote: post #169
swsieber wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that not every app needs it's own sync engine, but I disagree with your framing that the file system is the universal way to embrace local first. I have two reasons. First is that yeah, local first, but I also want concurrency. If it's just local first, you're right, any old sync will do. But I want more than that. I want to not have to think (a la dropbox, being slick). I want my wife and I to be able to mak…

But this problem isn't going to be solved by every app making its own sync system. Even if there is a magic library you can adopt that does pretty good, then everyone having their own completely independent hosting solution and sync schedule. If files are insufficient, what data-structure would make modular sync possible for multiple applications in an OS? And I’m not suggesting one doesn’t exist, I’m challenging to…

Files come with certain restrictions, which don't matter for certain types of applications. But for others they do.

I think it boils down to provenance and concurrency. If we edit the same line a file, that's ba merge conflict when it really should be simple and something I shouldn't have to bother with. And when we do do the same line edit, I'd love to have provenance on that data.

Granted, those aren't local first thing exactly, but I think there will be apps that want all of that.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#192

Post by echelon »

satvikpendem wrote: post #153
echelon wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that most content will be generated in the future and that generation will dominate the creative fields, white collar work, and most internet usage. If that's true, it's a substantial upset to the old paradigms of data and computing.

Yes, that is true, but again for apps like a fitness tracker, it is not "content" based. Sure, it might have some AI in the form of chatbots to ask what your diet plan should be based on your current progress, but that's not what you're talking about. In my experience, most local-first apps are like this fitness tracker, utility tools, rather than a means to view content, like TikTok.

The vast majority of apps, or at least data consumption, will not fit the shape of "fitness tracker". Budgeting, emails [1], workout routines - those will fall into a non-generative bucket of applications.

I still purport that in the future, most applications and screen time will fall into a generative AI bucket: creating media, writing code, watching videos, playing games, searching for information, etc. I wouldn't even be surprised if our personal images and videos get somehow subsumed and "enriched" with AI.

[1] Well, email might fall into a non-generative bucket. There are already tools that purport to both read and write your emails for you. I'm not quite sure what to make of those.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#193

Post by j45 »

maxhille wrote: post #92
DataDaoDe wrote: post #29

Yes a thousand percent! I'm working on this too. I'm sick of everyone trying to come up with a use case to get all my data in everyone's cloud so I have to pay a subscription fee to just make things work. I'm working on a fitness tracking app right now that will use the sublime model - just buy it, get updates for X years, sync with all your devices and use it forever. If you want updates after X years buy the newest…

How do you plan to do the syncing without some sort of cloud infrastructure?

Syncthing

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#195

Post by AstroBen »

ashdev wrote: post #56

This was refreshing to read! More apps should be local-first. If the user does not want to sync their data to cloud, they should have that option. I’ve been building the offline-first (or local-first) app Brisqi[0] for a while now, it was designed from the ground up with the offline-first philosophy. In my view, a local-first app is designed to function completely offline for an indefinite period. The local experienc…

How has it been going? I've been thinking of trying this model but a bit worried about how much harder it would be to make it sustainable as a business

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#196

Post by noahjk »

owebmaster wrote: post #163
satvikpendem wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd have used — not - if they were an AI.

Actually now using - in place of — is the signal that it is a LLM-generated text.

The cycle will be complete. I am an over-user of hyphens where em dashes should be used, and my misuse worked out well to differentiate - but now I'm just another LLM, I guess. Well, I actually learned to appreciate en and em dashes after learning more about them since the proliferation of ems, so maybe I can finally switch to them without feeling judged for outsourcing my work?

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#197

Post by ChiMan »

The speed alone is sufficient for a local-first approach. The latency of any cloud software I’ve ever used is like constant sand in the gears of thinking. Although taking supplements that slow my thinking—essentially natural downers—do improve my experience with such software, the improved experience comes at the expense of IQ. Basically, you need to be a little slow and dumb for the software to work as intended.

This is nuts. Computers are supposed to enhance and enable thinking, not make you stupid. In this sense, cloud software is possibly the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the paying, computer-using public.

For the love of God, please bring back my late 1990s and early 2000s brain-boosting computer experience.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#198

Post by Qwertious »

lurking_swe wrote: post #131
zhec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

your comment is insane imo. some people talk that way in real life. it’s not their fault LLM’s were invented.

The cost of spinning up a bot is ~$0, it's sensible to be suspicious in public.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#199

Post by jmb99 »

maxhille wrote: post #92
DataDaoDe wrote: post #29

Yes a thousand percent! I'm working on this too. I'm sick of everyone trying to come up with a use case to get all my data in everyone's cloud so I have to pay a subscription fee to just make things work. I'm working on a fitness tracking app right now that will use the sublime model - just buy it, get updates for X years, sync with all your devices and use it forever. If you want updates after X years buy the newest…

How do you plan to do the syncing without some sort of cloud infrastructure?

The benefit of local-first means you’re not incentivized to sell your cloud offering, so you can just give options. Sync with iCloud, Google drive, OneDrive, Dropbox, Mega, SMB, SFTP, FTP, whatever you feel like adding support for. And since local-first usually means having some kind of sane file format, you can let “advanced” users manage their own files and synchronization like people have been doing for the last 50 years.

Re: Local-first software (2019)

#200

Post by goodthink »

outlore wrote: post #30

What are the top web local first frameworks worth checking out these days? i’ve heard of livestore, tanstack DB with electric, zero. any others that are easy to use and flexible? use case is multiplayer apps and maybe games. thanks!

multisynq.io Formerly croquet.io. A team Alan Kay project. Dead simple. Synchronized execution, synchronized data comes along for free.
Post reply on HN