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I'm dialing back my LLM usage

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Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#191

Post by jazzyjackson »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #116
x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

I've been saying this for a while. The issue is if you don't intimately know your code, you can't truly maintain it. What happens when the LLM can't figure out some obscure but that's costing you $$$,$$$ per minute? You think being unable to have the AI figure it out is an acceptable answer? Of course not. LLMs are good for figuring out bugs and paths forward, but don't bet your entire infrastructure on it. Use it as…

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it."

- Brian Kernighan

So if there's a bug in code that an LLM wrote, simply wait 6 months until the LLMs are twice as smart?

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#193

Post by sunrunner »

photonthug wrote: post #187
nico wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself This happens with any sufficiently big/old codebase. We can never remember everything, even if we wrote it ourselves I do agree with the sentiment and insight about the 2 branches of topics frequently seen lately on HN about AI-assisted coding Would really l…

> This happens with any sufficiently big/old codebase. We can never remember everything, even if we wrote it ourselves The important thing about a codebase wasn't ever really size or age, but whether it was a planned architecture or grown organically. The same is true post-LLM. Want to put AI in charge of tool-smithing inconsequential little widgets that are blocking you? Fine. Want to put AI in charge of deciding yo…

> planned architecture or grown organically

That sounds like a hard or, as if ten years of development of a large codebase was entirely known up-front with not a single change to the structure over time that happened as a result of some new information.

"We build our computers the way we build our cities—over time, without a plan, on top of ruins." -- Ellen Ullman

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#194

Post by transpute »

guluarte wrote: post #181
mekoka wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because you're essentially the new guy on your own project. Wow! Lol. One sentence to rule them all.

and the problem is the LLM is also the new guy on the next prompt lmao, the guy(LLM) that wrote the original code is long gone

Looking forward to amnesiac LLM coder memes!

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/...

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#196

Post by teaearlgraycold »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

I am bewildered by the posts where people claim to have 20+ agents running at the same time on their repo. I’ve used o3, Claude 4 Opus, Gemini 2.5 Pro, and they can’t run for more than 15 minutes in the best of cases without fucking up or getting caught in a loop. Tasks that are slightly more complicated than your average code are beyond their comprehension.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#197

Post by skydhash »

ymyms wrote: post #173
jm4 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you described it much more succinctly than most people do. It's been my exact experience as well. The LLM can develop much faster than I can build a mental model. It's very easy to get to a point where you don't know what's going on, a bunch of bugs have been introduced and you can't easily fix them or refactor because you're essentially the new guy on your own project. I find myself adjusting by committing c…

One of my favorite ways to use AI is to get me started on things. I tend to drag my feet when starting something new, but LLMs can whip up something quick. Then I look at what it did and usually hate it. Maybe it structured the code in way that doesn't mesh with the way I think or it completely failed to use some new/esoteric library I rely on. That hate fuels me to just do the work myself. It's like the same trick a…

The same. It’s mostly an example generator, where you know what to do, but can’t take the time to build a model of the language/framework/library. Then you look at the code and retain only the procedure and the symbols used.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#198

Post by nvahalik »

Sounds like he shot for the moon and missed.

I've been allowing LLMs to do more "background" work for me. Giving me some room to experiment with stuff so that I can come back in 10-15 minutes and see what it's done.

The key things I've come to are that it HAS to be fairly limited. Giving it a big task like refactoring a code base won't work. Giving it an example can help dramatically. If you haven't "trained" it by giving it context or adding your CLAUDE.md file, you'll end up finding it doing things you don't want it to do.

Another great task I've been giving it while I'm working on other things is generating docs for existing features and modules. It is surprisingly good at looking at events and following those events to see where they go and generating diagrams and he like.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#199

Post by pdabbadabba »

gtsop wrote: post #169
danielbln wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would measure LLMs on recommending a fairly obscure and rather new spec that isn't even fully supported by e.g. Chrome. That's a leap that I, a human, wouldn't have made either.

So is the expectation for it to suggest obvious solutions that the majority of people already know? I am fine with this, but let's be clear about what we're expecting

> So is the expectation for it to suggest obvious solutions that the majority of people already know?

Certainly a majority of people don't know this. What we're really asking is whether an LLM is expected to more than (or as much as) the average domain expert.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#200

Post by sunrunner »

photonthug wrote: post #182
exceptione wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you better link to a good article instead. Good grief, what a horror . A talking head rambling on for 60 minutes. --- disclaimer: if low information density is your thing, then your mileage may vary. Video's are for documentaries, not for reading out an article in the camera.

> A talking head rambling on for 60 minutes. And probably a few minutes of commercials too. I get the impression this is an emerging generational thing, but unless it's a recorded university course or a very interesting and reputable person.. no thanks. What is weird is that the instinct to prefer video seems motivated by laziness, and laziness is actually an adaptive thing to deal with information overload.. yet thi…

> a very interesting and reputable person

Always and entirely subjective of course, but I find Casey Muratori to be both interesting and reputable.

> What is weird is that the instinct to prefer video seems motivated by laziness, and laziness is actually an adaptive thing to deal with information overload...

What's even weirder is the instinct to not actually engage with the content of the linked video and a discussion on Conway's Law and organisational efficiency and instead head straight into a monologue about some kind of emerging generational phenomenon of laziness highlighted by a supposed preference for long video content, which seems somewhat ironic itself as ignoring the original subject matter to just post your preferences as 'PSA' is its own kind of laziness. To each their own I guess.

Although I do think the six-hour YouTube 'essays' really could do with some serious editing, so perhaps there's something there after all...

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