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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#191

Post by easyThrowaway »

msgodel wrote: post #94
perlgeek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Israel's perspective, Palestinians are a problem. Long term, they have a few options: 1) Give them their own state. This is difficult for quite many reasons, and Israel (by which I mean the current government) doesn't want that 2) Give them full citizenship rights equal to Israel's citizens, make sure they have a proper minority representation, and let them participate in the regular political processes. The cur…

You'd think given Israel's history they'd do everything they could to not make 4) acceptable.

I don't think there's much overlapping between those who experienced the holocaust and whoever is in charge in Israel right now.

Speaking for experience from some relatives, the immigration laws for people of jewish faith and ancestry were nigh insurmountable if you came from african, arab or middle east countries and pretty much just nominal even in recent times for those who had even a remote connection but came from the US and the UK.

I have the feeling they are jewish the same way Henry IV was a Catholic when he said "Paris is well worth a Mass".

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#192

Post by cropcirclbureau »

ben_w wrote: post #159
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #118

The comment section in the article is revolting. I don't know if they're state actors, or if they're real people with those beliefs, but my god.

> I don't know if they're state actors, or if they're real people with those beliefs Both. And also trolls, and these days GenAI. Some say "Never again means now", with the flag of Israel, and no sense of irony or hypocrisy. I wonder if any say the same words with the flag of Palestine? Hamas is still also genocidal, with their leaders giving similar comments about all Jews as the current Israel coalition members giv…

Your comment is full of attempts to justify, excuse and underplay what the IDF are doing and many Israelis believe in. From Hamas to GenAI to trolls.

Whatever the historical record that brought us here, the fact is, Israel's standing army (not some personal goons of some dictator, the standing army of a moden democratic nation), appear to be practically all in on executing a systemic genocide. And I don't think there's anyway you can justify or underplay that.

Maybe the answer you're looking for is that good people anywhere shouldn't let anyone sell them a holocaust no matter the deal.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#193

Post by stefantalpalaru »

tuyguntn wrote: post #153
lukan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? "The basis for Lieberman’s allegation of ties to IS was unclear." It is easy to throw dirt and hope something sticks, but the main thing speaking against his group seems Netanjahu's support in my opinion. But otherwise I don't see the scandal so much here. Especially not compared to…

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#194

Post by amanaplanacanal »

henry2023 wrote: post #174

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Netanyahu is bad, for sure, but are you forgetting the half a million dead after the invasion and regime change in Iraq? Bush and Cheney are living in happy retirement. Rumsfeld has passed, may his soul rot in hell.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#195

Post by lukan »

aaomidi wrote: post #179
lukan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? "The basis for Lieberman’s allegation of ties to IS was unclear." It is easy to throw dirt and hope something sticks, but the main thing speaking against his group seems Netanjahu's support in my opinion. But otherwise I don't see the scandal so much here. Especially not compared to…

> To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? Comments like this coming from an audience currently not being genocided is going to haunt our history forever.

Can you get a bit more specific here?

Because it kind of reads like an attack towards me for not caring about genocide. If you are curious about my point of view, it is that both Hamas and Israeli leadership belongs in prison and the US and EU should stop supporting them immediately. But that doesn't mean I support anyone who wants to erease Israel. Do you support Hamas?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#196

Post by locallost »

dang wrote: post #146
locallost wrote: post #138

The guidelines of HN, to be kind and curious in the comments, are difficult to follow in this case. Outrage doesn't bring anything either, but a polite and curious discussion is impossible. The lack of reflection in the western world on this issue is seriously disturbing.

I hear you and I agree that there are topics which conventional politeness cannot respond to adequately, and that this is one of those topics. If you take those words "kind" and "curious" in a large sense—larger than usual—I think there's enough room there to talk about even this topic without breaking the guidelines. How to do this? That is something we have to work out together. You're right that it's difficult. Fr…

Thanks. I was not critical, especially not of the moderation, just tried to sum up what I think about it, and other than meaningless outrage there was nothing there. And yet there is no point in that because that's just letting off steam. I don't think it should be removed either.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#198

Post by mschuster91 »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #59
austin-cheney wrote: post #12

The biggest problem with this isn’t the horror of the actual war crime. The far more serious concern are the lengths the government will go to avoid holding anyone accountable. That is so much worse because it unintentionally endorses future crimes and challenges the offenders to take ever more offensive actions without fear of consequences.

Why would the government hold someone accountable for its own actions? Let’s not pretend that this is just some random soldiers doing this, this is exactly what the Israeli government wants.

> Why would the government hold someone accountable for its own actions?

Because that is what keeps the ICC off of their backs. The ICC only has authority to step in in cases where national jurisdiction is unable or unwilling to prevent and prosecute war crimes.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#199

Post by amanaplanacanal »

yoavm wrote: post #187
tveita wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't kill 2.1 million people by bombing them. That's why Israel has systematically taken out every hospital in Gaza: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdd25d9vp2qo Has blocked and sabotaged aid at every turn, including bombing UN food trucks: https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/01/1158746 And when allied countries got too uneasy about them just blocking all aid trucks at the border, they set up their own aid organ…

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Though probably true, it is irrelevant. Hamas doesn't have the power, and Israel does. This war is almost entirely one sided.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#200

Post by wiseowise »

meindnoch wrote: post #119
spacecadet wrote: post #22

If we look at history, do the oppressed always become oppressors?

Mostly, yes. Christians were persecuted by the Roman Empire, then became conquerors of the world. Russians were oppressed by the Mongols, then became conquerors of Eurasia. Communists were oppressed by Tsarists, then became ruthless oppressors themselves. Protestants were oppressed in Europe, so they set sail to America and became oppressors of the natives.

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