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Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

vidarholen.net

191–200 of 278 posts

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy. "Writing professionally" is also known as "communicating effectively" and it is part of doing/leading. Linus made an enormous impact, certainly. He'd have had an even bigger impact if he was less of a caustic dick. And before you say that there's a tradeoff involved and that genius technical people are just that way, look up Berkson's paradox.

Linus is a great example actually, because people pointed out he was being too much of an asshole, and he eventually agreed, and he reduced the toxicity of his rhetoric, but you can bet if the situation called for it, he would still use vulgarity to get his point across. If you totally ban profanity or vulgarity, all you do is force other words to take up the slack of what people use those words for, and therefore in…

Funny, I think Linus is a great example for the opposite reason. He shows that if you stop tolerating bad behavior, people will often change how they behave.

The idea that removing vulgarity will increase ambiguity in this context is very strange. In terms of communication, the only use for vulgarity is to convey emotion. That's not relevant here. If we ban it, maybe people will explain why something is shit, instead of just saying it's shit. Forcing other words to take up the slack is a feature, not a bug.

I know about the fast inverse square root code. I could probably give a decent if somewhat vague overview of how it works from memory. I don't recall the WTF comment, and that certainly isn't why I heard about it.

This is a great example of what I'm saying. Commenting 0x5f3759df "what the fuck?" isn't useful. It tells me the author was confused or amazed or something. Imagine if instead they had commented, "Compute an initial guess by negating and halving the exponent. 0x5f3759df was found by experimenting and seems to give a good guess in the mantissa bits."

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#192
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point being that there was a time (some greybeards might remember) where contributing to the linux kernel wasn't "work" but a fun hobby

Sure, but that time was nearly 30 years ago. Linux has been "mainstream" since at least August 1999.

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Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#193
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people like me contributed their freetime afterwards still

People still do. I think the point he's making is that the bulk of the kernel's source coming from people paid to do it has been a thing for probably over 20 years.

Any data for this?

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally care about language choices in code, but I'll play devil's advocate and speculate as to why a business might be concerned. 1. Reputational harm in the event that code needs to be shared. Say, the code gets read in court, or an outside consultant is brought in who is given access to the code. The company likely wants to maintain the same standard of professionalism that they expect when their employ…

3. Some of your coworkers may be among that group who finds it offensive or jarring. Maybe this is irrational, but we all are. I bet there's a sequence of ASCII bytes (say, art of certain infamous images from the early internet) that you wouldn't like to stumble across either.

And that’s what drives this ever increasing PC culture strangulating the world: fear.

You have to fear that everyone will react like the most sensitive that exist (as incredible rare as they are). And, you have to fear those who are offended for others even more so, since those are the only ones you’ll have a nonzero chance of interacting with.

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#195
post #188

I'd note that "retarded" can be a technical term which is not an insult or swear word which means "delayed" (e.g. "tardy") In an internal combustion engine you could have "advanced" or "retarded" spark timing for instance. It's an amusing area where denotations are the same in French and English but the denotations are different. [1] All over Quebec you see convenience stores called "Couche-Tard" (Sleep Late) which c…

Not in source code, but the word is also officially used in aviation as an automated audio warning to the pilots to, IIRC, slow down or pull back. The system screams "Retard! Retard! Retard!". I think they often hear it during normal landing procedures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbLHah4XUwk&t=815s

Notably French and English are the two languages of international aviation

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#196
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never worked on a big corporation. But I find interesting about corporations forbidding swearwords in code. I mean, the people responsible for forbidding swearwords rarely read code. And if they read code with any frequency and are somewhat proficient at it, most likely they have their own list of swearwords. Also we should look to add more keywords to programming languages that trigger naïve filters. I'm all…

As a simple fellow programmer, I don't want swear words in code I'm working on either? If it's in the code itself, you should be using better names. If it's in comments, I want information without extraneous modifiers. Not to mention, what one person thinks is an innocent swear might be considered very harsh by others. There's just no good reason for swear words to be committed. You want to swear about the code, do i…

[deleted]

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#197
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contend that you are slipping in the words "respectful" and "professional" and assuming the benefit of their positive connotations without an argument that simply omitting the occasional well-placed curse is indeed "professional". I think so-called "professional" speech - which I'd call bland and often ineffective speech - is professional in the same way that a suit and tie is professional. It's a uniform to ensure…

Vulgarity is a crutch used by those without the ability to communicate effectively. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-swearing-a-sig...

Swearing linked to more intelligence, not less [1]

[1] https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-inte...

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello from Spain, you cultural colonialist. Here it is pretty typical to curse in professional environments.

Just typical? There are places where writing down passwords to post-it notes is typical too, doesn't make it very professional, not without a great deal of sarcasm at the very least, or some good old bikeshedding about semantics. > you cultural colonialist Well at least you got that part of your insult quota completed for the day. People throw around terms like "colonialist" way too easy these days. One would think i…

> Just typical? There are places where writing down passwords to post-it notes is typical too, doesn't make it very professional...

Nice, now with extra patronizing, just the flavor we inferior cultures apparently crave.

> Gotta say, pretty weird though, the Spaniards I work with are normal people who can distinguish just fine...

Ah yes, the Spaniards you work with. Let me guess, you can count them on one hand, right?

> Maybe you just work somewhere where the standards are low?

And there's the second scoop of condescension. Maybe I just work in real places with real Spaniards, not in whatever sanitized fantasy you’ve constructed.

Let’s be clear: I've been working in Spain for nearly 25 years. Cursing is common here. It’s a cultural norm, not some "unprofessional lapse" waiting to be corrected by the wisdom of outside standards. If you'd ever had an honest, open conversation with one of your Spanish coworkers (the kind where people don't filter themselves for fear of offending delicate American sensibilities) you might have figured that out.

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#199

Theory: the shift towards lesser swearwords is a sign of corporatization, making the linux source a soulless bland hellscape of confirmity.

They just use fewer, but still write disparaging things about their peers if that's what you want.

Re: Occurences of swearing in the Linux kernel source code over time

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never worked on a big corporation. But I find interesting about corporations forbidding swearwords in code. I mean, the people responsible for forbidding swearwords rarely read code. And if they read code with any frequency and are somewhat proficient at it, most likely they have their own list of swearwords. Also we should look to add more keywords to programming languages that trigger naïve filters. I'm all…

I don't personally care about language choices in code, but I'll play devil's advocate and speculate as to why a business might be concerned. 1. Reputational harm in the event that code needs to be shared. Say, the code gets read in court, or an outside consultant is brought in who is given access to the code. The company likely wants to maintain the same standard of professionalism that they expect when their employ…

> The idea that arbitrary sequences of phones or characters will cause anyone within ear or eye-shot to become offended is rather absurd.

I find your assertion to be absurd. Do you really believe that no one should ever be upset by something someone else has said? If so, you have a huge misunderstanding of nearly-universal human behavior.

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