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Left-Pad (2024)

azerkoculu.com

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Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#191

Post by oftenwrong »

akoculu wrote: post #127
nindalf wrote: post #19

> I have to admit that I don't understand half of this blog post It's because you haven't read al-Ghazali yet. (definitely the most pompous and self-important part of this post)

When was the last time you were threatened (“we’ll will bang on your door and take down your accounts”) by a company like Kik and you defended the principles and values you believed until the end? I’m quite familiar with both western and eastern traditions, don’t know any better source than Ghazali’s “the alchemy of happiness” about how people make decisions. It’s kind of ironic to see people being triggered by just…

Given that this post is meant to explain your perspective at the time, I think it would make sense to explain it at least a little. At the very least, I am curious. What does Al-Ghazali have to say about making decisions that influenced you? I have not read Al-Ghazali yet.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#192

Post by bayindirh »

nindalf wrote: post #190
akoculu wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I mean, they have seen that NPM did ate their hats to bow to a company and they decided to not have it, and they removed their packages. Why the anger?

Yes, they have asked NPM to remove all of their packages. It's on them. NPM didn't do it, but gave a tool to do it themselves.

I deserted GitHub the day Copilot came online. I archived my repositories just because I didn't want broken links on comments and notes I have written god knows where.

I stopped uploading photos to Instagram the day they started doing AI training with my images. I didn't delete them because my partner likes them.

I can delete these repositories, photos, whatever I have online. I have no obligation to anyone. It's same for them. It's their code they developed by themselves. They can delete them, and just don't care what happens next.

Why this freedom bothers you that much?

P.S.: We don't do ad-hominem attacks here. Please refer to guidelines for more information. Thanks for your cooperation.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#193

Post by IggleSniggle »

nindalf wrote: post #188
lmm wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If NPM would have prevented the depublishing, he would have made a scene and in the worst case, they would have looked bad. I mean he says he asked them to remove all his packages, expecting them to do so gradually, following whatever mitigation strategy they felt appropriate (e.g. some kind of warning and fadeout process), and instead they gave him a script to do it immediately so he did that.

[flagged]

Please. It looks like he was doing dev as a hobby, asked a big company how to handle removing his packages, and did what they told him to. They might not have had the right policy, but that doesn't make a guy who doesn't want to give his packages away to a company just because they're making threats into an asshole. It makes him typical.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#194

Post by bakkoting »

xnorswap wrote: post #120
HPsquared wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

11 lines of code! Wow. I had no idea it was that small.

There used to be the general wisdom of, "Don't re-invent the wheel. Let the hive-mind craft utility functions and use those because they'll be battle-hardened, well tested, and you can focus on your core business". I think the left-pad incident helped shatter that myth. He we had huge packages depending on a package which padded a string in an inefficient manner. It turns out that the many eyeballs of the bazaar had…

> Apparently it has now finally arrived in ES2026

ES2017 [1]. The MDN docs always link the latest version of the spec; the year in the link doesn't correspond to the version where it was added. The proposal was already mostly done at the time of the incident [2]

[1] https://tc39.es/ecma262/2017/#sec-string.prototype.padstart [2] https://github.com/tc39/proposal-string-pad-start-end

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#195

Post by nindalf »

bayindirh wrote: post #192
nindalf wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I mean, they have seen that NPM did ate their hats to bow to a company and they decided to not have it, and they removed their packages. Why the anger? Yes, they have asked NPM to remove all of their packages. It's on them. NPM didn't do it, but gave a tool to do it themselves. I deserted GitHub the day Copilot came online. I archived my repositories just because I didn't want broken links on comments and notes I hav…

[flagged]

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#197

Post by nindalf »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #193
nindalf wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please. It looks like he was doing dev as a hobby, asked a big company how to handle removing his packages, and did what they told him to. They might not have had the right policy, but that doesn't make a guy who doesn't want to give his packages away to a company just because they're making threats into an asshole. It makes him typical.

He had already given everyone a license to use his software. That’s what FOSS software is - the users are granted a license to use the software and it can’t be revoked, even if the author is throwing a tantrum.

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#198

Post by Izkata »

eviks wrote: post #160
yurishimo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that a leftpad/is-odd package is the equivalent of writing a for loop. The time it cost you to search the internet, download the package, and rerun your build script cost more than the time to write the function from scratch and the behavior is indentical. Duplicate code across the ecosystem is fine. Not every function must be unique for an entire programming language.

What about the time it cost you to search the internet, read the docs, and use the one from std? How many seconds does each variant take (with hot/cold memory cache?) And the behavior could also be worse, there is no guarantee of perfection. The last argument is too generic to offer any guidance. Why is it better for this function be duplicated?? Should it not be part of std to avoid uniqueness?

> Should it not be part of std to avoid uniqueness?

> > > > (assuming the standard library doesn't include one already)

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#199

Post by efilife »

xnorswap wrote: post #120
HPsquared wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

11 lines of code! Wow. I had no idea it was that small.

There used to be the general wisdom of, "Don't re-invent the wheel. Let the hive-mind craft utility functions and use those because they'll be battle-hardened, well tested, and you can focus on your core business". I think the left-pad incident helped shatter that myth. He we had huge packages depending on a package which padded a string in an inefficient manner. It turns out that the many eyeballs of the bazaar had…

Inefficient? What would be an efficient way to do this? .Repeat() a string and then concatenate?

Re: Left-Pad (2024)

#200

Post by IggleSniggle »

nindalf wrote: post #197
IggleSniggle wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. It looks like he was doing dev as a hobby, asked a big company how to handle removing his packages, and did what they told him to. They might not have had the right policy, but that doesn't make a guy who doesn't want to give his packages away to a company just because they're making threats into an asshole. It makes him typical.

He had already given everyone a license to use his software. That’s what FOSS software is - the users are granted a license to use the software and it can’t be revoked, even if the author is throwing a tantrum.

Sure, but that license doesn't include the requirement to host in perpetuity, and anyway, I wouldn't expect a hobbyist to need to worry about this. If I decide to make my gamer-profile private / offline or something and that breaks your crawler, even though I previously granted unrestricted public access to that data, that's really not my problem.
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