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My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

fly.io

191–200 of 1001 posts

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#191

We are beyond the point of trying to convince naysayers. I will simply not hire anybody who is not good at using LLMs, and I don't think I would ever work with anybody who thinks they aren't very useful. It's like working with somebody who things compilers are useless. Obviously wrong, not worth spending time trying to convince. To anyone who reads this article and disagrees with the central point: You are missing th…

I don't think most people with mixed feelings in LLMs (or heretic naysayers as you put it) would want to work in a place like that, so perhaps you are doing everyone a favour!

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#192

I’d love to see the authors of effusive praise of generative AI like this provide the proof of the unlimited powers of their tools in code. If GAI (or agents, or whatever comes next …) is so effective it should be quite simple to prove that by creating an AI only company and in short order producing huge amounts of serviceable code to do useful things. So far I’ve seen no sign of this, and the best use case seems to…

> … if it’s so great, stop telling us and show …

If you’re selling shovels to gold miners, you don’t need to demonstrate the shovel - you just need decent marketing to convince people there’s gold in them thar hills.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#194
I believe that AI is very useful in software development but I don't buy the narrative that AI is responsible for layoffs over the past few years (at least not most of them). I think that narrative is a convenient cover for systemic misallocation which created a need to contain inflation. I think big tech execs understood that, beyond increasing their company stock prices, they also need to work together to keep the monetary system itself under control. This is why they've been firing people whilst having record profits. They've reached such scale and the system has reached such fragility that they have to think and act like economists to keep the thing going. The economy itself has become the responsibility of big tech.

But who knows, maybe AI will accelerate so rapidly that it will fix the economy. Maybe we'll have robots everywhere doing all the work. But I worry about the lack of market incentives for people to adapt AI to real world use cases.

For example, I'm an open source developer who likes to tinker but I've been booted out of the opportunity economy. I can't afford to program robots. People like me are too busy using AI to parse spreadsheets and send targeted ads to even think about automating stuff. We work for companies and have no autonomy in the markets.

If things had worked out differently for me, I'd probably own a farm now and I'd be programming robots to do my harvest and selling the robots or licensing the schematics (or maybe I'd have made them open source, if open source had worked out so well for me). I don't have access to such opportunity unfortunately. The developers who worked for big tech are good at politics but often disconnected from value-creation. Few of them have the skills or interest to do the work that needs to be done now... They will just continue leveraging system flaws to make money, so long as those flaws exist.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#195

The argument seems to be that for an expert programmer, who is capable of reading and understanding AI agent code output and merging it into a codebase, AI agents are great. Question: If everyone uses AI to code, how does someone become an expert capable of carefully reading and understanding code and acting as an editor to an AI? The expert skills needed to be an editor -- reading code, understanding its implication…

> a novice who outsources their thinking to an LLM or an agent (or both) will never develop those skills on their own. So where will the experts come from?

Well, if you’re a novice, don’t do that. I learn things from LLMs all the time. I get them to solve a problem that I’m pretty sure can be solved using some API that I’m only vaguely aware of, and when they solve it, I read the code so I can understand it. Then, almost always, I pick it apart and refactor it.

Hell, just yesterday I was curious about how signals work under the hood, so I had an LLM give me a simple example, then we picked it apart. These things can be amazing tutors if you’re curious. I’m insatiably curious, so I’m learning a lot.

Junior engineers should not vibe code. They should use LLMs as pair programmers to learn. If they don’t, that’s on them. Is it a dicey situation? Yeah. But there’s no turning back the clock. This is the world we have. They still have a path if they want it and have curiosity.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#196
post #37

>but it’s bad at rust I have to say, my ability to learn Rust was massively accelerated via LLMs. I highly recommend them for learning a new skill. I feel I'm roughly at the point (largely sans LLMs) now where I can be nearly as productive in Rust as Python. +1 to RustRover as well, which I strongly prefer to any other IDE.

It is not bad at rust. I don't think I could even function well as a Rust programmer without chatgpt and now Cursor. It removes a lot of the burden of remembering how to write generic code and fixing borrow checking stuff. I can just write a generic function with tons of syntax errors and then tell cursor to fix it.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#197

I’d love to see the authors of effusive praise of generative AI like this provide the proof of the unlimited powers of their tools in code. If GAI (or agents, or whatever comes next …) is so effective it should be quite simple to prove that by creating an AI only company and in short order producing huge amounts of serviceable code to do useful things. So far I’ve seen no sign of this, and the best use case seems to…

Yeah exactly.

Whats nuts is watching all these people shill for something that we all have used to mediocre results. Obviously Fly.io benefits if people start hosting tons of slopped together AI projects on their platform.

Its kinda sad to watch what I thought was a good company shill for AI. Even if they are not directly getting money from some PR contract.

We must not be prompting hard enough....

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#198
post #68

The privacy aspect and other security risks tho? So far all the praise I hear on productivity are from people using cloud-hosted models. Claude, Gemini, Copilot and and ChatGPT are non-starters for privacy-minded folks. So far, local experiements with agents have left me underwhelmed. Tried everything on ollama that can run on my dedicated Ryzen 8700G with 96GB DDR5. I'm ready to blow ~10-15k USD on a better rig if I…

Almost all of the cloud vendors have policies saying that they will not train on your input if you are a paying customer.

The single biggest productivity boost you can get in LLM world is believing them when they make those promises to you!

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#199

There's something that seems to be missing in all these posts and that aligns with my personal experience trying to use AI coding assistants. I think in code. To me, having to translate the into natural language for the LLM to translate it back into code makes very little sense. Am I alone in this camp? What am I missing?

I know what you mean. The thing is: if you already have the solution put together in your mind, it might be faster to just implement it by hand.

But if you don't have the shape of a solution? Might be faster to have an AI find it. And then either accept AI's solution as is, or work off it.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#200
> Professional software developers are in the business of solving practical problems for people with code. We are not, in our day jobs, artisans. Steve Jobs was wrong: we do not need to carve the unseen feet in the sculpture. Nobody cares if the logic board traces are pleasingly routed. If anything we build endures, it won’t be because the codebase was beautiful.

I think it comes all down to that, do you have pride in what you do or you don’t ?

I make a wall with bricks, even if it will be covered with coating i will do my best to have regular joints and pacing.

Could make it faster, no one would notice the difference but me… i hate that feeling when you done something and you know it’s barely enough, just barely, it’s kind of shit and you really don’t want others to see it.

On the opposite side, some people will take pride in building wall twice as fast as me and won’t care it’s horrendous.

Both cases are valid, but me i know i can’t do a work I’m not proud of.

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