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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#191

Post by gamblor956 »

jampa wrote: post #145
gamblor956 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing creative in having someone or something else doing the work for you. "Creating" with an AI is like an executive "inventing" the work actually done by their team of researchers. A team owner "winning" a game played by the their team. That being said, AI output is very useful for brainstorming and exploring a creative space. The problem is when the brainstorming material is used for production.

The first two paragraphs of your argument could be used to discuss whether Photography (Camera is doing most of the work) or Digital Drawing (Photoshop is doing most of the work) are art. Both things which were dismissed as not art at first but are widely accepted as an art medium nowadays.

The first two paragraphs of your argument could be used to discuss whether Photography (Camera is doing most of the work) or Digital Drawing (Photoshop is doing most of the work) are art.

The work a camera does is capturing the image in front of the photographer. "Art" in the context of photography is the choice of what in the image should be in focus, the angle of the shot, the lighting. The camera just captures that; it doesn't create anything that isn't already there. So, not even remotely the same thing as AI Gen.

The work of Krita/Inkscape/etc (and technically even Photoshop) is to convert the artistic strokes into a digital version of how those strokes would appear if painted on a real medium using a real tool. It doesn't create anything that the artist isn't deliberately creating. So, not even remotely the same thing as AI Gen.

AI Gen, as demonstrated in the linked page and in the tool comparison, is doing all of the work of generating the image. The only work a human does is to select which of the generated images they like the best, which is not a creative act.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#192

Post by dktp »

nrjames wrote: post #70

This is technically impressive and I commend the team that brought it to life. It makes me sad, though. I wish we were pushing AI more to automate non-creative work and not burying the creatives among us in a pile of AI generated content.

For better or worse, a big chunk (if not most) of the AI development probably does go into non-creative work like matching ads against users and ranking search results

It's just not what gets the exciting headlines and showcases

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#193

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

teitoklien wrote: post #162
dmonitor wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's being redefined in such a way that 2-3 very large entities get to hold the means of production. It's a very convenient redefinition for them.

[flagged]

> I make songs daily

Sorry for being blunt, but you do not. You receive some music matching your request from a service offered by an entity which aims to control as much of content creation and distribution as possible, up to total monopolization.

> I’m not a musician... Now I can with $10-$15 / month.

If you want to create music, do it, it doesn't require much money. If you just want to listen, there's literally thousands of authors creating all kinds of authentic, sincere, daring, skillfully performed, carefully mixed music, giving it away for next to nothing and still striving to find their listeners.

What you pay for is avoiding the effort of finding what suits you.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#194

Post by echelon »

woolion wrote: post #99
vunderba wrote: post #22

After doing some testing, Imagen 4 doesn't score any higher than Imagen 3 on my comparison chart, approximately ~60% prompt adherence accuracy. https://genai-showdown.specr.net

The winning image entry for "The Yarrctic Circle" by OpenAI 4o doesn't actually wields a cutlass. It's very aesthetically pleasing, even though it's so wrong in all fundamental aspects (perspective is nonsensical and anatomy is messed up, with one leg 150% longer than the other, ...). It's a very interesting resource to map some of the limits of existing models.

Google Flow is remarkable as video editing UX, but Imagen 4 doesn't really stand out amongst its image gen peers.

I want to interrupt all of this hype over Imagen 4 to talk about the totally slept on Tencent Hunyuan Image 2.0 that stealthily launched last Friday. It's absolutely remarkable and features:

- millisecond generation times

- real time image-to-image drawing capabilities

- visual instructivity (eg. you can circle regions, draw arrows, and write prompts addressing them.)

- incredible prompt adherence and quality

Nothing else on the market has these properties in quite this combination, so it's rather unique.

Release Tweet: https://x.com/TencentHunyuan/status/1923263203825549457

Tencent Hunyuan had a bunch of model releases all wrapped up in a product that they call "Hunyuan Game", but the Hunyuan Image 2.0 real time drawing canvas is the real star of it all. It's basically a faster, higher quality Krea: https://x.com/TencentHunyuan/status/1924713242150273424

More real time canvas samples: https://youtu.be/tVgT42iI31c?si=WEuvie-fIDaGk2J6&t=141 (I haven't found any other videos on the internet apart from these two.)

You can see how this is an incredible illustration tool. If they were to open source this, this would immediately become the top image generation model over Flux, Imagen 4, etc. At this point, really only gpt-image-1 stands apart as having godlike instructivity, but it's on the other end of the [real time instructive] spectrum.

A total creative image tool kit might just be gpt-image-1 and Hunyuan Image 2.0. The other models are degenerate cases.

More image samples: https://x.com/Gdgtify/status/1923374102653317545

If anyone from Tencent or the Hunyuan team is reading this: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE OPEN SOURCE THIS. (PLEASE!!)

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#195

Post by yieldcrv »

StefanBatory wrote: post #98
yieldcrv wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a creative and I’m really glad that more people can express themselves Just wanted to add representation to that feeling

They always could express themselves.

Not close to the way they wanted, and at too much sacrifice to the other things they were interested in or supported their family with

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#196

Post by yieldcrv »

lilwobbles wrote: post #86
yieldcrv wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a creative and I’m really glad that more people can express themselves Just wanted to add representation to that feeling

Expressing themselves by generating boilerplate content? Creativity is a conversation with yourself and God. Stripping away the struggle that comes with creativity defeats the entire purpose. Making it easier to make content is good for capital, but no one will ever get fulfillment out of prompting an AI and settling with the result.

exactly, creatives and everyone else can always do something fulfilling for themselves just like before AI. They can struggle all they want and continue doing it for no capital. because that process is fulfilling to them.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#197

Post by gamblor956 »

andoando wrote: post #124
gamblor956 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing creative in having someone or something else doing the work for you. "Creating" with an AI is like an executive "inventing" the work actually done by their team of researchers. A team owner "winning" a game played by the their team. That being said, AI output is very useful for brainstorming and exploring a creative space. The problem is when the brainstorming material is used for production.

I don't think that's true. Is a film director not a creative? You could come up with your own story and direct the AI to generate it for you.

In your example, the "come up with your own story" part is the creative part. But you're not "directing" the AI to generate it for you. You're just giving it a command. You're selecting from the results it outputs, but you're not controlling the output.

A film director is a creative. Ultimately, they are in charge of "visualizing" a screenplay": the setting, the the design of the set or the utilization of real locations, the staging of the actors within a scene, the "direction" of the actors (i.e., how they should act out dialog or a scene, lighting, the cinematography, the use of stunts, staging shots to accommodate the use of VFX, the editing (meaning, the actual footage that comprises the movie).

There's an old show on HBO, Project Greenlight, that demonstrates what a director does. They give 2 directors the same screenplay and budget and they make competing movies. The competing movies are always completely different...even though they scripts are the same. (In the most extreme example from one of the later seasons, one of the movies was a teen grossout comedy, and the competing movie was some sort of adult melodrama.)

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#198

Post by BosunoB »

nrjames wrote: post #70

This is technically impressive and I commend the team that brought it to life. It makes me sad, though. I wish we were pushing AI more to automate non-creative work and not burying the creatives among us in a pile of AI generated content.

Robotics will come in the next few years. If you believe the AI2027 guys, though, the majority of work will be automated in the next 10 years, which seems more and more plausible to me every day.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#199

Post by renerick »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #175
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your meticulous prompt is using the work of thousands of experts, and generating a mashup of what they did/their work/their commitment/their livelihood. Their placement of books. Their aesthetic. The collection of cool things to put into a scene to make it interesting. The lighting. Not yours. Not from you/not from the AI. None of it is yours/you/new/from the AI. It's ALL based underneath on someone else's work, some…

And that's exactly how your brain work. What you call "creativity" is nothing more than exactly that: mixing ideas and thoughts you were exposed to. We're all building on others' work. The only difference is that computers do it on a much larger scale. But it's the very same process.

This is completely absurd and reductive point of view, which I always assume is a cop out. Just because it's called "machine learning" doesn't mean it actually has anything to do with how human learning or human brain works, and it's certainly not "exactly how" or "very same". There's much more going on on in human creative process, aside from mere "mixing": personal experience, understanding of the creative process, technique and style development, subtext, hidden ideas and nuances, etc. Computers are very good at mixing and combining, but this is not even close to what goes into actual creative process. I hate this argument

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#200

Post by teitoklien »

gloosx wrote: post #190
teitoklien wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the process is more democratized now, Want to learn coding ? Build out your app idea first with replit -> Then export the codebase into your computer -> Run claude code on it and ask it to scan all the files and describe the tech stack to you and how it operates while giving you all the major components you need to learn to understand it with youtube channel and book recommendations for each topic + work exercis…

This raises another interesting question to think about: if everyone has (1) low-cost access to build anything, and (2) low-cost access to learn how to build anything at the same time... ...what do you think a human would choose the most?

Hence said is their liberty, Im not contesting what you’re worried about. That idiocracy will rise and our nextgen will only have surface level thoughts with AI being more and more being the subtle decider of every human’s choice in the background.

That is probably the more likelier possibility. However it just shows the lack of philosophy in our modern times, people don’t do things they are lazy about and a Choice between the easy way and hard way is no longer a choice for majority the easy way’s dangling carrot is the final ultimatum.

I think i’ll leave it at the thought that as time progresses to find value in day to day life, to force ourselves to choose the right thing, philosophy will again have to become a much stronger actor in our lives, or else we’d all drive off a cliff at current rate.

At the end what happens will be decided by choice and liberty of humans as their choices expand.

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