Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#191

Post by slantyyz » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

vetinari wrote: post #158

slantyyz wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Is that enough justification for them to sue everyone else in an attempt to lock them out of the market? To be clear, I don't agree with Apple's lawsuit, I think it's a waste of time/money related to one of Steve Job's personal grievances. Keep in mind, however, that Apple is not suing everyone else. They aren't suing over Windows Phones. They didn't sue Palm/HP over WebOS. They also didn't sue RIM over the Playbo…

Apple does not sue Palm/HP or RIM, because they are not threat. They are almost non-players. The only lawsuit Microsoft had against Android vendor was Barnes and Noble. Which was settled out of court (by investing into B&N to shut them up). Other vendors license things like exFAT and ActiveSync. Some vendors (notably Motorola and Sony) do not pay anything to Microsoft.

IIRC, HTC settled up and is paying a license fee. There is no way for Barnes and Noble to be the only one paying, since it is widely known that MS makes more from Android makers than it does from Windows Phone.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#192

Post by Jauny » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:11 PM UTC

I find it extremely sad to see companies that we are supposed to respect like Google for example, not accepting any competition anymore. The aim of any company is trying to answer and fix complicated problems to create wealth out of that problem. Fixing a hard problem offer some assurance that others won't be able to fix that problem, hence allowing you some advantage and creating the wealth you expected.

But for a few years now, all we hear about is not anymore technology advance or revolution, it's just every company doing the same thing and trying to destroy the others by finding some patent complain they can sue about.

Every single time company A sues company B for patents infringement, it's either BS and then the lawsuit goes nowhere and you can be sure company B will instantly fill itself a patent suit against company A; The defense is offence right? Or the lawsuit is legitimate, and instead of just hoping to get back what they seem to deserve, the suing company always seeks the termination of the whole company... that's just sad, because we used to see Google as an example for startups we build, in the culture, the way to manage. But this kind of behavior, which will cost them more than what they'll get in return anyway, is just sad...

Do you really think Apple will be stopped from importing its products in the US? What Google/Motorola expect from this? That it passes and Apple slowly dies because of the loss of the US market?

I mean seriously... it looks like third grade :(

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#193

Post by slantyyz » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:16 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #157

slantyyz wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Is that enough justification for them to sue everyone else in an attempt to lock them out of the market? To be clear, I don't agree with Apple's lawsuit, I think it's a waste of time/money related to one of Steve Job's personal grievances. Keep in mind, however, that Apple is not suing everyone else. They aren't suing over Windows Phones. They didn't sue Palm/HP over WebOS. They also didn't sue RIM over the Playbo…

Keep in mind, however, that Apple is not suing everyone else. No, they're only suing their only serious competitor, which should tell you all you need to know about how much this is about protecting innovation vs locking out a legitimate alternative and reducing consumer choice. I'm sure they could find plenty of bogus patents to use against MS and WebOS if they felt threatened by them at all.

They are suing their biggest competitor, yes, but I'm not the only one who thinks Samsung made a few models with a UI that looks like they knocked off iOS.

WP and WebOS might be bit players, but they have novel UIs that are actually good and arguably better than iOS. In particular, WebOS had the best notifications.

WP and WebOS prove Apple's notion that it is possible to compete without an 'iPhone Skin'.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#194

Post by rustynails » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:21 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #164

cheald wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple iterated, but they didn't re-invent the smartphone. See the LG Prada, announced in December 2006. It was the first full-screen capacitive touch phone. Its form factor was strikingly similar to the iPhone, and LG even accused Apple of ripping off the design (though they never followed through in court). What Apple did do was market this newer form factor very successfully, effectively tying the iPhone form facto…

I'm sick of that "LG Prada was there before" meme. The fully functioning iPhone was presented by Jobs on January 7, 2007, and "accidentally" LG announces the same design less than a month before? It's simply impossible that LG didn't actually have to produce something for the coming iPhone and in parallel just made their clone. That's the reason LG remained quiet afterwards.

Accidentally announced 1 mth before? Reference please. I believe it was longer than that, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada#iPhone_controversy

The reason this IS so important is because it re-enforces the "emergent technology" argument that many forget, which is the antithesis of what many argue...

Do you recall Knight Ridder had something looking almost the same as the iPad... In the video from 94, the speaker talks of emergent technologies enabling the future, not "first to market".

Society should outright reject any notion that emerge t technology is patentable, regardless if the "evil corporation" driving the insanity is Apple, Samsung, Google, etc

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#195

Post by drone » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:47 PM UTC

sigkill wrote: post #174

forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What Apple did do was market this newer form factor very successfully" No, what Apple did was to bring its 20 years of experience making OSs to a mobile phone. Most of the iOS libraries are the same that in macOS. Those are incredible low level-very efficient and smart work tested by millions of people on the real world for years, and very good designed.(Apple have really great designers not only on the outside) The…

Say what you may about operating systems then and now, but with experience I can tell you this, these devices were phones first and computers second. They are computers first and phones second now. [Warning - Personal anecdote. #include ] Even in Nokia land, SonyEricsson land, what ever crap may have happened on the system you were ALWAYS able to attend phone calls. Even if the whole damn os came crashing down becaus…

You bring up an excellent point, which accurately describes my first experience with a windows smart phone. I didn't get back onto smart phones for a while (buying my next only three years ago), once the crop of non-smart phones finally hit rock bottom for my personal tastes.

I do despise how often my phone fails to act as an actual phone. I also despise the lack of hardware buttons to answer calls. The most frustrating aspect of a smart phone, is trying to answer a call while an app is going nuts, the screen won't swipe, or the damned buttons that aren't really buttons don't work.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#196

Post by rustynails » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:47 PM UTC

veeti wrote: post #178

throwa wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Android an Iphone rip off. Google bought android in 2005, was the iphone out in 2005? http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2005-08-16/google-buys-a... Can we try not to revise history.

"Android" in 2005 was a Symbian/BlackBerry-style OS that was being prototyped on a QWERTY device with no touch screen.

Reference please. My understanding is that Android was always intended to be hardware independent, including supporting touchscreen "before iPhone" came out. The claims of a sudden change in direction are revisionist history to suit some people's agendas, http://www.osnews.com/story/25264/Did_Android_Really_Look_Li...

I am grateful for the competition between both groups (Android and IOS). This competition forces organizations to compete on merit, or the market votes with its feet.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#197

Post by dspeyer » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 3:55 PM UTC

larsberg wrote: post #44

joelrunyon wrote: post #16

Does anybody else feel all the tech giants standing around with their patents in hand is like all the characters standing around with guns like at the end of Reservoir Dogs? "Nobody innovate or we'll shoot!" It's intriguing at first, but you can only keep it up so long before the plot line gets annoying because no one is doing anything (or innovating), or someone gets shot.

IIRC, big companies used to claim they were gathering these patents to _prevent_ this situation from happening, using a similar logic to that of hoarding nuclear weapons to mutually assured destruction. But it appears that something in the balance has changed, and I'm not really sure what. Are the lawyers just doing a bad job of agreeing on the licensing fees (i.e. penalty for having less cross-targeted bombs for a g…

I think the destabilizing thing was how long Google _didn't_ play the MAD game. So Apple went on the warpath feeling safe. But Google militarized really fast.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#198

Post by veeti » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:02 PM UTC

rustynails wrote: post #196

veeti wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Android" in 2005 was a Symbian/BlackBerry-style OS that was being prototyped on a QWERTY device with no touch screen.

Reference please. My understanding is that Android was always intended to be hardware independent, including supporting touchscreen "before iPhone" came out. The claims of a sudden change in direction are revisionist history to suit some people's agendas, http://www.osnews.com/story/25264/Did_Android_Really_Look_Li... I am grateful for the competition between both groups (Android and IOS). This competition forces org…

You just gave me my reference. The video in that article was released almost a year after the iPhone. It's pretty obvious that the touch UI in it is also a very early version of the Android we have today. Just one glaring example is how the application menus are navigated by using the hardware keys on the device and not by touch. The touch targets are tiny. The UI is embarrassingly laggy. It probably isn't a coincidence that these BlackBerry-style Android devices never actually got released, either.

I have no "agenda". I'm an Android developer and I've owned one Apple device in my lifetime (and have no plans to buy new ones ever because of their business practices). I own multiple Android devices. I just realize that the iPhone truly did change touch devices forever because the UI was something new.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#199

Post by rustynails » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:03 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #136

comatose_kid wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that Apple suing to protect its intellectual property is wrong. But even if I did, I don't buy the logic that doing the 'wrong' thing is okay because the other guy did it first.

I don't think that Apple suing to protect its intellectual property is wrong. Do you think that Lodsys suing to protect its intellectual property is also not wrong? I don't buy the logic that doing the 'wrong' thing is okay because the other guy did it first. Using force in self-defence is unacceptable?

You may want to re-read comatose-kid posting again. He doesn't support "others do it" as a justification.

Re: Google Sues Apple, Seeks To Block iPhone, iPad & Mac Imports To U.S.

#200

Post by rustynails » Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 4:14 PM UTC

fpgeek wrote: post #141

ChuckMcM wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's a patent litigation bubble :-)

It isn't a bubble. Until Congress and/or the courts change the rules, the fundamentals are very, very strong.

The fundamentals of patents may be very strong, but IIRC, the same does not apply to software patents, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_under_United_S...

IIRC, this discussion still needs to take place. I really, really hope that software patents are knocked on the head, unless there is true science, such as a complex algorithm, which should have a limited life of a few years AT MOST, otherwise my litmus test of "harm to society" is met.