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Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

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Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#191

Post by gfodor »

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

An alternative idea to technical countermeasures is to do it the way the SA forums have doing it for 10+ years. $10 to get in. Appoint moderators who can ban or probate users at will if they post trash or break the rules. If you're banned you shell out another $10 if you want to join again.

(And no, this is not comparable to app.net. The money isn't sufficient, you need the moderators just as much. You need both.)

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#193

Post by Zak »

sbierwagen wrote: post #183
Zak wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/r/ronpaul As you might expect, a subreddit about a politician with (in)famously devoted followers attracts its share of strife. It can be difficult to distinguish legitimate arguments from flamebait, and there's no shortage of people eager to take any bait offered. I should note that I'm not actively running the moderation bot at the moment.

I'm sure a bot that algorithmically classifies mean comments is possible. I'm not sure that the same can be said about trolling. Poe's law? Deep cover trolling? When one of the criteria of trolling is the hidden intent of the person writing, then there's no physical process that can reliably find a trolling, short of looking inside their head.

A well-executed troll is, by definition difficult for humans to detect.I don't think there's much chance of reliably doing it with software. Fortunately, most political squabbling on reddit consists simply of people expressing scorn or outrage that someone would post something on the internet that disagrees with their deeply-held beliefs. That's a bit easier to detect.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#194

Post by [deleted] »

mibbitier wrote: post #151
pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

Why not simply limit the size of the community? Heck charge a membership fee... Making it invite only would have (IMHO) improved things a massive amount. Have people do a test to gain entry. Any community that is free and open will just deteriorate over time.

[deleted]

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#195

Post by dpcan »

You have a great point. Ditch the Karma, or make it invisible, and a lot of people will stop commenting just to get votes. And only when you reach so much Karma are you allowed to start seeing the Karma of others. But experiments have been done here before, and a lot has not worked. People REALLY hate change around here ;)

On the other hand, the larger the community gets, the more real it gets. And the truth is simply that the world is snippy. They are opinionated, they don't really care, and reality pretty much sucks. Well, at least that's how I feel by the end of most days. So if you want honest opinions, you kind-of have to take the good with the bad.

Don't get me wrong, what drew me in to HN was the brilliance of the discussions too. The fact that people seemed to really care about each other. It felt like sitting in a room filled with only the smartest people, all of whom had intriguing insights into their areas of expertise. Man it was awesome. Do I want this back? YES.

The only way I can see this happening is if everyone over a certain amount of Karma, and that have been here long enough, get hand-picked and invited into an elite HN community.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#196

Post by mhartl »

tptacek wrote: post #182
pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I wish you'd consider investing less time in technical countermeasures to dumbness (all of them are gameable, and the brand of dumbness you're fighting is not at all incompatible with an intuitive talent for that gamesmanship) and more time into just setting better community norms. It is hard to imagine that the site guidelines you write years and years and years ago when this place was tiny are, intact and without c…

I'm sympathetic to your point, but I fear that the worst offenders are among those least likely even to read the guidelines, much less adhere to them.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#197

Post by pg »

tptacek wrote: post #182
pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

I wish you'd consider investing less time in technical countermeasures to dumbness (all of them are gameable, and the brand of dumbness you're fighting is not at all incompatible with an intuitive talent for that gamesmanship) and more time into just setting better community norms. It is hard to imagine that the site guidelines you write years and years and years ago when this place was tiny are, intact and without c…

Ok, I'll try that too.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#199

Post by MartinCron »

jff wrote: post #110
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend was already well established by the time you got here. If you go back three years, you do see a different site that is far more accepting and far less technical. Early in the HN world, when I read an article, my first thought wasn't "let's see how HN have dismantled this". For many things (especially raw information), I appreciate that cynicism. For launches and discussions around early products, it annoys…

The Internet is not a hugbox. People launching products and companies need criticism more than anything else, because if they get it now, they can fix the problem before a customer or a funding source spots it.

The Internet is not a hugbox

Surely there's a some balance point between "hugbox" and "hatefest". Also, we're not talking about the Internet, but a small self-selected community of humans that happens to connect via the internet.

Re: Why I now, unfortunately, hate Hacker News..

#200

Post by 127001brewer »

pg wrote: post #114

It's a genuine problem and has been growing gradually worse for a while. I think the cause is simply growth. When a good community grows, it becomes worse in two ways: (a) more recent arrivals don't have as much of whatever quality distinguished the original members, and (b) the large size of the group makes people behave worse, because there is more anonymity in a larger group. I've spent many hours over the past se…

pg, I have notice two (2) recent trends that have, in my opinion, degraded some of the quality of this site:

1. Postings that are more advertising than informational, which I briefly commented on here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4350447; and

2. Members who submit their own postings.

Briefly, while I appreciate the sharing of information, any content that becomes an obvious sales pitch doesn't belong on this site. When I read a posting from this site, I want to learn and be informed - I do not want be sold on something. And - there may be disagreement with my second point - I do not find any significant value when a member submits their own positing, because I feel they're trying to sell me on something. (Please understand this does not apply to "Show HN" - just to articles and blog postings.)

Overall, I really appreciate members asking for feedback on their projects. They should be challenged and not degraded or insulted. This is a great community with great insights, so it's up to everyone to be "good neighbors".

Edit: Grammar.

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