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Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

joshlehman.com

191–200 of 207 posts

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#191
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now I live in London, and as far as I can tell, all the good coffee is made by Aussies, In New York, Swedish coffee (of all things) seems to be the up-and-coming thing: http://www.fikanyc.com/about http://www.konditorinyc.com/ No idea why. Scandinavia is exotic and hip these days, probably. Then again, a lot of new Swedish things are popping up, like Swedish pizza places (which, if you haven't had it, mostly revolv…

Whoa. I actually got a touch of national pride there! What a feeling! :D Anyway, one reason Swedish coffee culture might be something that can be noticed in NY is that we're pretty good at drinking coffee. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coffee_con... ; to get a hint about how important coffee is in Scandinavia. Sweden is down at #6 these days, but we still clock in at roughly twice the consumpt…

I'm Norwegian. We're at #2. Finland leads by a large margin, though.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#192
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa. I actually got a touch of national pride there! What a feeling! :D Anyway, one reason Swedish coffee culture might be something that can be noticed in NY is that we're pretty good at drinking coffee. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coffee_con... ; to get a hint about how important coffee is in Scandinavia. Sweden is down at #6 these days, but we still clock in at roughly twice the consumpt…

You need to remove the trailing '>' from your link (or don't put it between angle brackets). Going by that page perhaps I should start a dutch coffee house in NY! I wonder if there are many Starbucks in Scandinavia? I know of only one here in the Netherlands.

Norway (#2 in coffee consumption) has a single Starbucks, located in the arrivals hall at Oslo Airport.

I overheard some people recently talking about how they sometimes take the airport express train just to have coffee at Starbucks. Which is just insane, not just because the coffee isn't particularly good (and Oslo has plenty of extremely good barista places) but because a round-trip ticket from Oslo to the airport costs $56 (€46).

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#193
post #178

Wow. The negativity of the comments here to this post is astounding. I personally find this post very insightful. Just yesterday, I bought the EA Tetris app for $0.99. I played it for three minutes, and decided I hated the "touch" interface for Tetris. It isn't Tetris at all. And it pissed me off that I paid money for something useless. It doesn't matter if I paid $20 for it or $0.99. It just makes me feel like a foo…

Mmm, I like your line of thinking with a subscription model for apps although there's still an unknown time investment for any new app. Try out this app and spend five minutes on it? Eh, maybe. Subscription music services work very nicely because the time investment for listening to new music is essentially zero. There's no download or queuing wait at all.

But listening to music itself takes time, doesn't it?

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#194
post #82

There are a few more stumbling blocks to purchase as well: - What of my billing information / what billing hassles am I opening myself up for? Considering that app purchases are frequently tied to both credit cards and your comms/telco vendor (and often other integrated services), you're putting a lot at risk. - What respect (or lack) does this app have for my privacy? I'm very conscious of what closed-source resourc…

Yes, the point here: the actual non-monetary "cost" of a purchase to many end users is much higher than 99c. I would say personally that the cost of any app I have to purchase is $2-3 at least. Therefore all that pricing the app at 99c has done is brought the cost down to the floor imposed by other factors. So app developers need to judge and price their apps comensurate with the real "effective" cost the user is goi…

You're understating the personal cost of a purchase by a couple of orders of magnitude. How much time does it take for you to make an assessment of product quality? What's the cost of your time? What are the available alternatives (where "failure to purchase" is in fact an option, and the default mode)?

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#195
post #193
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmm, I like your line of thinking with a subscription model for apps although there's still an unknown time investment for any new app. Try out this app and spend five minutes on it? Eh, maybe. Subscription music services work very nicely because the time investment for listening to new music is essentially zero. There's no download or queuing wait at all.

But listening to music itself takes time, doesn't it?

For evaluating the likeability of a song? Yes, but it (like Starbucks) is a known quantity. 10-30 seconds of listening.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#196
I don't know but, I can hardly ever justify spending EUR 3.25 (~$4) on a cup of Starbucks coffee. When I can spend EUR 5.00 on a bag of really nice beans that'll make me many many really NICE cups anywhere I bring my filter-holder and have access to an electrical outlet (for the grinder and water-boiler).

In fact I really hate spending that money on a single cup of coffee since even in the rare case when it's pretty good that merely means it's "almost just about" as good as what I brew myself and the expense puts such a damper on the enjoyment factor I might as well not bother.

But then, I'm probably one of those stereotypical cheap Dutch bastards :-P (that happens to brew a really kick ass coffee)

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point in two ways a) "Starbucks" serves in this situation as a generic term for an espresso drink of your choice. Like Kleenex or Xerox or what-have-you. When someone says "people will spend $4 on a coffee at Starbucks without thinking about it" they don't mean at Starbucks specifically, they just mean "some coffee shop that isn't 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds". b) Even within the category of…

It's hard for me to relate to your experience of Starbucks in the US. But in Australia the quality of a Starbucks coffee is inconsistent and typically bad. Australia has a relatively old coffee culture, so most coffee drinkers are discerning. In the absence of reliable information in a strange town I will always gamble on a the small cafe, as they have to work to get customers as opposed to depend on an advertising b…

Starbucks coffee in the US is just as bad as Starbucks coffee is in Aus, possibly even worse because US customers seem to have much lower standards for coffee. Last time I had to drink Starbucks in the US I had to get 5 shots in a latte so that I could actually taste the coffee.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#198
I'm having a hard time finding a part of this post that I agree with. I understand and also think there is a problem making an apples to apples comparison of digital and real goods, but let me step through these arguments:

"Fact: Starbucks Coffee is a Trustable Experience"

So the argument here is that brand weight translates into actual value. While this is true across the consumerist landscape, there now also exists these things called reviews. They enable people with no knowledge of something to make a reasonable decision based on the experience of others. For example, I would be willing to pay more at a well reviewed coffee shop than at a Starbucks. For me, reviews always trump brand value.

"Fact: Your $1 App is a Total Gamble" First problem: the logic that x was bad so y must be bad as well is flawed. No one would have Starbucks, hate it, and hate Peet's Coffee by association. Now, it would be reasonable to assume that someone could be turned off by Apps in general the same way someone could dislike coffee, but that makes this whole argument comparison anyway. Second: you're making the same mistake arrogant people make when they write off buying a lotto ticket before a big drawing. Yes, odds of winning might be low (staggeringly low in the lottery, much less so in buying an app), but the potential gain far outweighs it and the barrier to entry is also next to nothing. You might buy a $1 app and have it be worthless, but it also might give you 30 hours of playtime or speed up your tasks by 10 min a day or something wonderful. If it's worthless, you're out a dollar. I'll miss that single dollar... I could have travelled back in time to the 80s and bought a candy bar.

"Fact: Starbucks Has No Free Alternative" Yes they do. Taste tests. But this is harder to argue against, and deserves another debate altogether. If someone provides a better service/app for free, by all means use it. It works for open source, less so for people trying to turn a profit. Expect a paid version to come along that trumps it.

"Fact: The Starbucks Craftsmanship Is On Full Display" Seriously wtf. "The feeling says “lots of work went into this magical liquid pick-me-up”." And apps grow on trees? What an ignorant statement. What do you consider the screenshots and YouTube videos of applications? Whether you meant to or not, you have managed to say that you think it takes far more work to make the same cup of coffee your home coffee pot makes than it does to build an application. "How often have you heard people say “I could have made that app, if only I’d thought of it first”. Or “that’s so simple, I can’t believe its been so successful”." I don't think I've heard anyone say "I could have made that," it's far more likely to hear "I thought of that first." To that I say, "If you guys were the inventors of Facebook you'd have invented Facebook."

Yes, perhaps there is a problem with comparing a cup of coffee with a $1 app. But the problem is not that Starbucks is more valuable than some individual or that a single app developer is to blame for the quality of all software. The problem is that we have allowed computer science to become a black box in our society. It's far worse than even math's "I don't need to know this because I'll never use it." The only people who have any idea of the time and effort involved in software creation are the people who create software. You call it "showing craftsmanship," but I call it changing our damn society to stop trivializing things that take massive amounts of effort while glorifying the ones that take little. The solution is simple: make computer science a mainstay of primary and secondary education. Reading, writing, arithmetic, and computers.

TL;DR: The trivialization of the effort involved with software development is the fault of society and not the fault of software developers.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is easy for some to slam Starbucks coffee for taste , the truth is nearly every cafe you go to will have a healthy business - and often perpetual lines - of paying customers. Quality is subjective, and the entire experience Starbucks brings is what the urban masses are looking for. For that matter, take a long road trip, and if you happen to see a Starbucks logo on an exit sign, more often than not you're go…

McDonalds does a roaring trade in burgers, but that doesn't mean their burgers are very good. I had starbucks coffee exactly once, and it was so bad that I vowed never to go back there again. The way to know if a coffee shop is good is to ask for a quattro ristretto with milk, or something like that. If the barista looks at you funny or hesitates in the slightest just go somewhere else.

> The way to know if a coffee shop is good is to ask for a quattro ristretto with milk

But I just want coffee flavored coffee.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#200
post #47

Horrifying. The point about the coffee cup comparison isn't that cups of coffee are the benchmark experience for product pricing; if that were the case, my next root canal would cost $0.20. The point of the coffee cup comparison is marginal utility : the money you spend on an expensive cup of coffee almost certainly has very little utility at the margin, because you are happy to chuck it away for a bad cup of coffee.…

Wait, what? Are people seriously arguing about the dollars and the coffee ? Here, let me explain you why paying a dollar for an app or a theme or any such crap on my (full disclosure: Android) phone pisses me off and why I'm happy to go pay CLP3250 for Starbucks coffee once or twice a week. When I go to Starbucks to buy my coffee, I get a beverage that has a certain level of caffeine I like, lots of milk, is sweet an…

A POV of "repeatability" which is missed: It's not so much that you're buying a repeatable $4 item, it's that you're paying thousands of dollars for something instantiated over and over. You're not so much buying the individual drink as buying into Starbucks. You've made your evaluation, considered the options, and settled on a product for which you are going to shell out a pile of cash, using it for a long time (in $4 20oz increments). This vs. apps which, as you note, requires evaluation every time with a different experience for each $1. The "coffee vs. app" comparison would only be valid if every time you bought a drink you weren't quite sure what you were getting, knowing that there was high odds of chucking it on the first sip; you wouldn't be buying many of those either. The coffee analogy matches more the device you're running the app on: same device, used in small increments daily, with a little surface variation (the apps), for a very long time; this matching more that you're buying the Starbucks experience for $2 a day, and swapping out toppings/flavorings (apps) for another $1 or so.

BTW: the correct order is "short black". "Tall" isn't their smallest size, the un-advertised "short" is. They may not have the proper cups (as most customers don't know they exist), so you may get a free upgrade to "tall". As for "black", why would anyone want to adulterate a perfectly good coffee into a milkshake?

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