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My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

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Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#191

Post by razemio »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #189

I wondered once if it would be possible to ride a motorcycle safely if I drove carefully (everyone I know who rides has been in at least one serious accident). I thought: I could look at the data, but I see so many motorcyclists driving dangerously that the data wouldn't teach me much. So then I thought: I bet if I look at the accident rate for women riders it would be interesting. I found that in the UK, male riders…

This sadly does not say anything because the kilometers driven is unknown in this statistic, right? So it could be that female drivers do not drive that many kilometers compared to males, which results in less accidents.

Also, is this accidents total men / women? Then it would not even take into account, that there are significant more male riders.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#192

Post by haiku2077 »

nandomrumber wrote: post #188
haiku2077 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sportbikes are lower, but they're not typical. Sportbikes sales trended way down over the past decade, with models being discontinued entirely in some regions. Current sporty-style bikes are generally more upright seating and share engines and platforms with non-sport models. Dual sport/off road bikes have trended upwards, even for riders who never go off pavement, because they're cheap to run and very practical as g…

I see, thanks for the info. I’m licensed but haven’t owned a bike in years. Do we have stats on whether more sports bike riders are involved in crashes that bikes with better visibility?

Not really. Outside of a few groups at places like Virginia Tech, motorcycle safety studies don't get much funding. Too niche.

You can use insurance rates as a loose proxy- sportbikes are between one and three orders of magnitude more expensive to insure than adventure bikes, touring bikes or cruisers. But I suspect that has more to do with the average age of the riders.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#193

Post by bmink »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #189

I wondered once if it would be possible to ride a motorcycle safely if I drove carefully (everyone I know who rides has been in at least one serious accident). I thought: I could look at the data, but I see so many motorcyclists driving dangerously that the data wouldn't teach me much. So then I thought: I bet if I look at the accident rate for women riders it would be interesting. I found that in the UK, male riders…

Age is another differentiator. Take young men out of the equation and you get a much better picture.

Another interesting stat is that the majority of motorcycle crashes are single vehicle accidents, ie. the rider going down by themselves. While this can be equipment failure, in most cases this will be crashing due to riding too fast or above skill level.

So yes, riding very carefully at safe speeds and avoiding dangerous situations (I choose my routes to avoid situations where drivers are likely to be in their phone — mostly freeways and freeway-like streets in cities) will make bikes a lot more safe.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#194

Post by stickfigure »

terribleperson wrote: post #181
godelski wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is fatality rates are increasing but injury rates are decreasing. Seems like something else might be at play. If it is more SUVs and Pickups then I think a brake light helmet would do a lot considering the danger those cars present is being harder to see those below them. But if it is something else, then maybe not as good of a solution.

Vehicles with a tall, flat face are more likely to kill instead of injure, from my recall of previous discussions on HN. That's been a trend in vehicle design for a few years now.

Fortnine did a video on Grilles That Kill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU

They're hideous too.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#195

Post by enragedcacti »

cj wrote: post #25
HPsquared wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd only see it on newer bikes with ABS, they seem likely to have more sensors and "electronics" in the brake system. In that kind of system the deceleration could be inferred from existing speed signals. I wouldn't be surprised if ABS systems already estimate the engine braking torque directly.

What is the general consensus on ABS braking in motorcycles? Really curious to hear from anyone who has rode a bike equipped with it. For some reason the idea of a bike interfering with brake controls seems like it could feel unsafe if the system isn't designed really well. Extremely low margin for error when it comes to braking on a 2 wheel vehicle especially in suboptimal conditions. I could see ABS braking being f…

There's a great FortNine video showing the pros and cons. The very short of it is that the perfect rider can stop faster without ABS but ABS + good technique can achieve very similar results while drastically reducing the consequences of panic braking.

This isn't mentioned in the video, but ABS also enables more aggressive use of linked brake systems, which also improve worst-case safety when a rider panics and uses only one brake or the wrong brake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDbWZiaUeDY

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#196

Post by rounce »

haiku2077 wrote: post #180
nandomrumber wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first glance I want to strongly disagree, but who am I to argue with your experience. What bike do you ride, and what vehicles are you calling trucks? Specifically.

An F750GS and a DRZ400SM are my main bikes (out of an entire garage full of stuff). For trucks I'm talking about F-150s and similar.

Hello fellow dizzer enjoyer

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#197

Post by bob1029 »

beloch wrote: post #90
braunshedd wrote: post #71

When I was commuting daily in the SF fog, I discovered that putting on of these [1] on my helmet did wonders to keep cars further off my tail. It moves the brake light up to eye level for people in SUVs and also triggers on engine braking. Wish it were cheaper, but was a worthwhile investment for me. Also, consider looking into airbag vests if you ride regularly. Also expensive but (supposedly) make a huge difference…

Motorcycle fatality rates have been trending upwards, not downwards[1]. Brake lights on helmets may illuminate one of the culprits: An ever increasing number of American trucks with poor visibility. Sitting on a bike, you're even shorter than a pedestrian and more likely to be completely out of sight. Perhaps its time to start regulating for better visibility, as Europe has done. [1] https://www.iii.org/fact-statisti…

> Perhaps its time to start regulating for better visibility

I argue we should start with the A-pillar. It's not just the big fat American trucks. Every car that is allowed to roll onto the streets is required to have a certain amount of airbag and the push for this seems to have really bad side effects on aspects of safety for everyone not inside the vehicle.

Look at the visibility difference in a 1980s pickup truck and compare it to 2024 model year anything and you would likely feel claustrophobic pretty quickly.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#198

Post by kelnos »

godelski wrote: post #176
beloch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycle fatality rates have been trending upwards, not downwards[1]. Brake lights on helmets may illuminate one of the culprits: An ever increasing number of American trucks with poor visibility. Sitting on a bike, you're even shorter than a pedestrian and more likely to be completely out of sight. Perhaps its time to start regulating for better visibility, as Europe has done. [1] https://www.iii.org/fact-statisti…

What's interesting is fatality rates are increasing but injury rates are decreasing. Seems like something else might be at play. If it is more SUVs and Pickups then I think a brake light helmet would do a lot considering the danger those cars present is being harder to see those below them. But if it is something else, then maybe not as good of a solution.

That seems unfortunately unsurprising. With shorter vehicles (sedans), when you get hit (as a pedestrian, bicyclist, motorcyclist), you are more likely to be pushed over the hood of the car. But with a taller vehicle (truck, SUV), you're more likely to either be propelled forward after hitting the high, flat face of the grille, or get pulled and dragged under the vehicle.

While going over the hood is going to hurt, and can kill you, the other options are much more likely to kill you.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#199

Post by NegativeLatency »

markbnj wrote: post #178
beloch wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycle fatality rates have been trending upwards, not downwards[1]. Brake lights on helmets may illuminate one of the culprits: An ever increasing number of American trucks with poor visibility. Sitting on a bike, you're even shorter than a pedestrian and more likely to be completely out of sight. Perhaps its time to start regulating for better visibility, as Europe has done. [1] https://www.iii.org/fact-statisti…

As an almost-daily motorcyclist with 15k miles on my current machine (Suzuki DL650), I absolutely agree that the increased proportion of pickup trucks on the road increases the risks for riders, however I suspect it is mainly because the larger, heavier vehicles aggravate the effects of a general deterioration in driving skills and attitudes. One thing about riding a motorcycle is that you are, unless you have a deat…

It's a really complicated issue, but you might find some of stuff related to Strong Towns, 15 minute cities, and sorta general modern urbanist things interesting. If we had better transit, more connected communities etc, people who are less interested in driving and driving well would have other options than hours long commutes.

Re: My quest to make motorcycle riding that tad bit safer

#200

Post by allknowingfrog »

nandomrumber wrote: post #179
haiku2077 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I am sitting on my motorcycle I am taller than most people's sitting position in their trucks. While filtering I can look down into their vehicles and see what they're doing on their phones.

At first glance I want to strongly disagree, but who am I to argue with your experience. What bike do you ride, and what vehicles are you calling trucks? Specifically.

Kind of meta, but you deserve recognition for this demonstration of self-awareness. You expressed skepticism politely, then asked specific questions instead of making assumptions. Sometimes HN gives me hope for the rest of the internet.
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