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Suno v4.5

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Re: Suno v4.5

#191

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

nikkwong wrote: post #189

The mood here is as notoriously cynical as I would expect from HN. Yeah, let's all brush this tech off as unoriginal, uninspiring and bland. Let's all tell ourselves that music requires that 'special human touch' or audiences will become bored, unimpressed and uninterested. But I'll bet you anything, the average ear won't care. This music is already as good as what's produceable by humans, and will be available for a…

> Yeah, let's all brush this tech off as unoriginal, uninspiring and bland.

The tech is great, it's the music it produces that's unoriginal, uninspiring and bland.

> Be ready to see it popping up everywhere—in cafes, restaurants, on TV ads, on your next spotify playlist.

So music will become even shittier going forward? Yay tech! Thanks for automating away the act of music listening!

Seriously though, now that music-as-a-product has been killed by techbros, can we go back to music-as-an-act, like before? That would be the silver lining.

Re: Suno v4.5

#192

Post by computerdork »

brookst wrote: post #174
computerdork wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with you about AI music powering a revolution - it really creates some amazing music and it's still early in the technology - But for us musicians who studied literally decades to learn all these techniques (harmony, counterpoint, music form, polyrhythms, piano, partimento...), it's painful to see that others can create a piece of music in seconds which took us a lifetime to learn how to do (I write mainly…

100% agreed. But I think it is like any other revolution that pushes human creativity to a higher level of abstraction. Someone on HN, don’t remember who, made the observation that some artists mistake mastery of tools for the art, whereas artists who focus on the actual art can roll with changes to the tools.

Agree with this for the most part. In fact, I write my pieces by hand on paper, use notation software (Dorico) to create the sheet music, listen to the piece using playback software (Noteperformer) which is connected to multiple virtual instruments (BBC Symphony Orchestra, etc.). These are all wonderful tools, and make writing music easier. For me at leas, they're not absolutely necessary, but are definitely helpful.

But, AI isn't just a tool, it's actually generating musical ideas at a highly finished level. For the first time, we have something that takes over a substantial amount of the creativity used to write a piece, a process which has always been the domain of people, and it's doing it at levels that are close to what the best skilled humans can do. Yeah, this isn't just something that aids creation, but is doing the creating itself.

Maybe one day, will use AI to create substantial amounts of the music I write, but am not nearly at that point yet - don't think most classical concert audiences want to got to a concert hall to hear AI generated music, but that may change. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Re: Suno v4.5

#193

Post by abhpro »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #179

AI has killed my desire to write and make music. It all feels so pointless I increasingly feel like withdrawing from the internet as well. Half of the users are bots anyway

Well there will always be an audience that wants to hear what humans can mechanically pull off

Re: Suno v4.5

#194

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

XenophileJKO wrote: post #178
tern wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green Day (was) definitely original. The level of unoriginality I'm talking about goes way beyond "pop music is the same old chords from the 50s" or "the 70s were the golden age and everything since then is derivative." What's the basis for this? Unfortunately it's hard to describe, but I've listened to a wide variety of popular and niche genres my whole life with a specific eye toward appreciating all the different…

If you think song and image generators can't make creative things, the problem is between the seat and keyboard. It is unfortunately that simple. 4o as an image generator can create out of distribution images because it literally works at a conceptual level. Suno currently is limited architecturally to in distribution components, so trying to create instruments or vocal styles it never heard won't work. The parts tha…

Tell me you don't know the first thing about making pictures or music without telling me you don't know the first thing about making pictures or music.

Re: Suno v4.5

#195

Post by insin »

nikkwong wrote: post #189

The mood here is as notoriously cynical as I would expect from HN. Yeah, let's all brush this tech off as unoriginal, uninspiring and bland. Let's all tell ourselves that music requires that 'special human touch' or audiences will become bored, unimpressed and uninterested. But I'll bet you anything, the average ear won't care. This music is already as good as what's produceable by humans, and will be available for a…

> but also game & movie soundtracks ... tv shows

I can't begin explain how taken aback I am by this comment, to call others cynical and come out with this - do you think these currently feature the work of anonymous composers of unloved background music?

Have you heard of the likes of Nobuo Uematsu, Yoko Shimomura, Lena Raine, John Williams, Clint Mansell, Ennio Morricone, Ramin Djawadi, Max Richter, holy shit Max Richter, have you never been pierced to your very core by something like On The Nature of Daylight used to perfect effect at an emotional climax in a movie or TV show? The hair on my arms is standing up just thinking about it.

This is the most shallow sampling of a group people who are beloved for their work in these media and likely for lifetimes beyond it.

Re: Suno v4.5

#196

Post by zaptrem »

conception wrote: post #138
tern wrote: post #97

The fact that LLMs compute an average of human culture is more apparent in music AIs than any other medium. You cannot get these things to do anything original, same as with images, designs and creative writing—and it's not an "intelligence" problem. I'm not sure if this is solvable, but I think it should be a bigger research topic. If anyone knows of any papers on this, I haven't found one yet (not sure what to sear…

https://youtu.be/JdxkVQy7QLM?si=_lkqbjVZRuPVjOkL https://youtu.be/_PC6jwoHyOk?si=imjfG9khOI-hsJA0 https://youtu.be/Fkf4QYTfIxA?si=j-Fo8HN59xCbteD2 Etc etc

My favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

Re: Suno v4.5

#197

Post by joshu »

i want the reverse. i give it a song and it tells me what the description is, and then let me search other existing songs. i have a bunch of weird music that i like and not even their creator's other songs sound much like the one song that i like...

Re: Suno v4.5

#198

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

ofrzeta wrote: post #68
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #2

Feel they didn't really test these genres "Cajun synthpop chant" has no chanting or synths, it sounds more like country music with french woman vocals

I tested around five genres although they were more mainstream than what you picked and they were quite good, for instance French Ska. If someone told me it was an actual French Ska band I wouldn't have doubted it. Or Klezmer music, but maybe the Jiddish wasn't totally correct.

All of the non-English lyrics are so cringe as to border on intentional parody.

Re: Suno v4.5

#199

Post by jjmarr »

nikkwong wrote: post #189

The mood here is as notoriously cynical as I would expect from HN. Yeah, let's all brush this tech off as unoriginal, uninspiring and bland. Let's all tell ourselves that music requires that 'special human touch' or audiences will become bored, unimpressed and uninterested. But I'll bet you anything, the average ear won't care. This music is already as good as what's produceable by humans, and will be available for a…

> This music is already as good as what's produceable by humans, and will be available for a fraction of the cost without the licensing fees.

I'm trying to use Suno 3.5 to create low quality 90s/00s-style MIDI music (similar to Vektroid[1]) since that's my favourite genre. Ironically, what it created[2] still doesn't properly evoke the hollow, tinny, low-quality computer-generated sound that I want to hear.

Specifically, it reduced the number of instruments, so the final result still sounded good. It didn't mash a bunch of MIDI instruments together and create something just a little incoherent that implies it was based on something better.

I think humans are better at stealing/remixing other songs and making them deliberately worse.

Tastes will probably change to be into whatever AI is unable to generate effectively and this seems similar to Stable Diffusion's inability to generate ugly people.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_(Vektroid_album)

[2] https://suno.com/s/FVCY0EZhWucyg6zM

Re: Suno v4.5

#200

Post by nikkwong »

insin wrote: post #195
nikkwong wrote: post #189

The mood here is as notoriously cynical as I would expect from HN. Yeah, let's all brush this tech off as unoriginal, uninspiring and bland. Let's all tell ourselves that music requires that 'special human touch' or audiences will become bored, unimpressed and uninterested. But I'll bet you anything, the average ear won't care. This music is already as good as what's produceable by humans, and will be available for a…

> but also game & movie soundtracks ... tv shows I can't begin explain how taken aback I am by this comment, to call others cynical and come out with this - do you think these currently feature the work of anonymous composers of unloved background music? Have you heard of the likes of Nobuo Uematsu, Yoko Shimomura, Lena Raine, John Williams, Clint Mansell, Ennio Morricone, Ramin Djawadi, Max Richter, holy shit Max Ri…

I'm not saying it's going to replace it fully—the bigger the budget, the more room there could be allotted to artists like the ones you've mentioned. Yes, I enjoy their music with my entirety—Hans Zimmer especially. But on the margin, human artist will definitely be replaced. Think lower budget films/shows/games.

As you get higher up the ladder budget wise, quality wise; I think it's an open question as to what will happen. Working with humans introduces another variable, adds expense, time complexity, and so on. Not every producer, 100% of the time, is going to think this tradeoff is any longer worth it, when they can generate something of similar quality without much effort. Universal has already announced they're doing something similar for script writing. It just seems natural that human-made music is also on the chopping block.

Yes this does sound like the enshittification of everything; and I'm certainly not advocating for this course of events at all. But granted how capitalism works, how the human mind works, it just seems like the direction things are likely to go, given how capable this technology is.

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