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The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

happiness.hks.harvard.edu

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Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#191

Post by pentlego »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #182
xiande04 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said all the things that you do while raising kids. What is it that you are doing differently that allows you to do all those things? Is it simply just a matter of hiring a cleaner? Because otherwise, as the father of a 1 and 5 year old, I completely agree with OP and find your story unbelievable. Like OP I work/exercise/do chores from 6 am to 10 pm. I'm on HN right now only because it's Saturday and I'm rel…

You’re on HN because it’s Saturday and you’re relaxing. I’m in an Uber to go see some gym friends because my kids are in the bath and almost ready for bed. Another night this week: I’ll do the same for my wife. Zero judgment here, genuinely, but: I keep hearing people say my life is impossible and it doesn’t seem like it.

I think so much of this is mentality, which as a word really undersells the problem but I can't think of a better one. You and the other commenters are probably about equally busy, but you are able to see your various tasks and obligations as opportunities to invite your friends in or otherwise socialize. They see them as blockers where nothing else and especially not socializing can happen.

As a childless person with far more "free time" than either of you, I've fallen into the same trap. I build it up in my head that I'm "just too busy" and during my downtime I'm "too tired," but the reality is often that I've just lost the habit and fail to perceive the opportunities.

None of this is meant to undersell the problem. I don't think human beings evolved for this pervasive, isolated busyness, and I think a lot of societal dysfunction cascades from it. I think it has real, negative effects on our biology and psychology, and no one should be shamed for succumbing to those effects. But at the same time I don't think the situation is hopeless and I admire and aspire to your initiative and creativity, and I think the rest of us can get there too.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#192

Post by emmelaich »

oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

Combine it with kids stuff. Chat to fellow parents at PTA and sports. I have a circle of friends consisting mostly of fellow school parents and sports players still going 10 years after kids left school. We get together for beers and poker and some coffee mornings.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#193

Post by swat535 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #135
gavinray wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was having kids worth this in your opinion -- genuine question?

Not OP, but have kids, and no, I would not do it again if I could do it over for similar reasons they enumerate. Plants are the new pets, pets are the new kids, and human kids are exotic pets for the wealthy or crazy (or a combination of those traits).

> human kids are exotic pets for the wealthy or crazy

I'm having a hard time parsing that statement.

Are you suggesting that only the wealthy can realistically afford to have children today, or that parents increasingly treat their children like status symbols or pets?

Both interpretations strike me as pretty dystopian.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#194

Post by astura »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #185
api wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you moved from a high cost of living city back to your home town, how much did that have to do with it? In HCOL cities the crazy rent or mortgage costs keep everyone running and cut into discretionary funds for assistance.

I live in Scotland. HCOL here is not very H, despite living in the most expensive city. Part of the reason I don’t live in America is I see a lot of people on salaries 2-4x mine who seem to be unable to have time to see their friends.

>Part of the reason I don’t live in America is I see a lot of people on salaries 2-4x mine who seem to be unable to have time to see their friends.

This is just a choice though. A choice Americans absolutely love making, but a choice none-the-less. On Reddit some dude was trying to argue that an individual needs $70,000 a year in fixed expenses just to live. Bare minimum. OTOH, I have what I consider an absurdly luxurious life and I spend less than $60,000/year TOTAL.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DwlQ_5A2mKU - this is a video of someone who makes $2,200/month and has zero expenses (her parents pay for everything) and is in serious financial trouble.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#195

Post by 0n0n0m0uz »

I am an introvert who prefers solitude to human interaction as my base mode. I find most interactions to be draining and unnecessary. They basically only increase or serve as a source of stress while offering nothing meaningful that somehow improves my mental state. I probably had this tendency but never had enough solitude to really recognize how much I preferred it. It is actually addicting and almost impossible to go back. I understand that in terms of social or financial success it’s not conducive or beneficial but in terms of spiritual growth it is. Even for me it’s certainly a useful skill to be able to connect with others and share experiences or material goods. I see many articles about a loneliness crisis so I guess for most people solitude is actually an unwanted state of affairs that causes them distress.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#196

Post by toomuchtodo »

swat535 wrote: post #193
toomuchtodo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but have kids, and no, I would not do it again if I could do it over for similar reasons they enumerate. Plants are the new pets, pets are the new kids, and human kids are exotic pets for the wealthy or crazy (or a combination of those traits).

> human kids are exotic pets for the wealthy or crazy I'm having a hard time parsing that statement. Are you suggesting that only the wealthy can realistically afford to have children today, or that parents increasingly treat their children like status symbols or pets? Both interpretations strike me as pretty dystopian.

> Are you suggesting that only the wealthy can realistically afford to have children today, or that parents increasingly treat their children like status symbols or pets?

A little of both. Kids are a luxury good in the current macro.

The cost to raise a child from 0-18 in the US in 2023 dollars is ~$330k (Brookings, USDA). This does not include daycare (~$1k/month if you can find a slot) nor college. No sick leave nor paternal leave mandate, no job security, and so on. 2.5M children experience homelessness each year in the US. 14M are food insecure.

Look at wage data, correlate against housing and other non discretionary expenses, back out to affordability.

> Both interpretations strike me as pretty dystopian.

Welcome to the shit show. “To know is to suffer.” —- Nietzsche

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#197

Post by [deleted] »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #182
xiande04 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said all the things that you do while raising kids. What is it that you are doing differently that allows you to do all those things? Is it simply just a matter of hiring a cleaner? Because otherwise, as the father of a 1 and 5 year old, I completely agree with OP and find your story unbelievable. Like OP I work/exercise/do chores from 6 am to 10 pm. I'm on HN right now only because it's Saturday and I'm rel…

You’re on HN because it’s Saturday and you’re relaxing. I’m in an Uber to go see some gym friends because my kids are in the bath and almost ready for bed. Another night this week: I’ll do the same for my wife. Zero judgment here, genuinely, but: I keep hearing people say my life is impossible and it doesn’t seem like it.

[deleted]

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#198

Post by potato3732842 »

astura wrote: post #187
api wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were more kids around, which meant there were more kids for your kids to play with instead of hanging on you and more parents in the same boat to form a support network. It’s one of the problems with birth rate collapse. The fewer people have kids, the harder it is in very hard to measure ways.

This doesn't make sense, the population has only increased. Quick Google tells me 40 years ago, in 1985, there was 62.6 million children in the US. In 2025 there are 74.7 million. That is more children in 2025 than 1985. Parents not allowing their children to play independently isn't due to lack of other children, it's a choice.

I suspect the number of children born to the kind of parents who's kids six figure white collar professionals want their kids in contact with has gone down.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#199

Post by MarcelOlsz »

oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

You do it like you do in Europe. Your friends pop by and sit around while you're doing what you're doing, chatting here and there, helping out occasionally too. If you're thinking about "outings" then yes, those are cooked with your schedule.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#200

Post by rr808 »

oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

The most successful people at work I see have a stay at home partner that looks after the kids, or no kids, or kids left for college. Its pretty impossible to have a demanding job and family life and your own life.
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