Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Native visionOS platform support

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 346 posts

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#191

Post by andsoitis »

solarkraft wrote: post #144
jeroenhd wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would insist Apple conforms to the industry standard Insisting Apple conforms to anything is useless, unless you're in control of government regulations. You can stick to Apple's ridiculous custom APIs, or you can release your software without Apple support. Luckily, VisionOS seems to have gone the way of the Apple Pippin, so I don't think many people will care much about Apple's headsets not being supported by V…

Apple wants Godot to support the Vision Pro, hence the PR. Hence Godot has some leverage here (though possibly not enough).

They could just politely declare that visionOS / Vision Pro is not a big enough platform to warrant the distraction (opportunity cost).

That is my recommendation.

Heck, the PR comment even asks that someone creates a vision OS logo (you would think Apple would include it)!

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#192

Post by MegaDeKay »

colechristensen wrote: post #46
tapoxi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they going to do the ongoing maintenance if this is merged in?

This question is asked and answered in the linked PR thread.

If you are talking about this link [0], the person answering is from the Godot team and not Apple.

[0] https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#issuecommen...

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#193

Post by cosmic_cheese »

bigyabai wrote: post #58
eksu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenGL is quite dated for VR/AR. In the Apple ecosystem they supported OpenGL 4.1 for quite some time before moving to Metal, which was announced 2 years before Vulkan. If you spent the time developing an in house graphics API since open standards weren’t moving forward, why would you rewrite everything a second time just a few years later? Shouldn’t you expect to get a decade or two out of your existing API and only…

In an ideal world, Apple would have just built DirectX and sold the Xbox too. But you can't look at it from an executive's perspective, you have to look at it from the developer's point-of-view. This insistence on high-investment, low-ROI APIs is why the Mac doesn't have games. If you run the Metal playbook with VR again, you will have developers outright abandon you. We've already seen what happens. Apple's GPUs sup…

It’s more that devs can’t be arsed to write non-mobile games in anything but DirectX unless they’re being paid to (as the console vendors do). Vulkan support is quite rare in commercial games, it’s almost entirely DirectX or Sony/Nintendo’s things. If Apple somehow flipped a switch that turned on Vulkan support, almost nothing would change.

The single biggest things Apple could do to bolster gaming on their platforms is to pay studios to do it or for Apple to license DirectX from MS. Anything else will barely move the needle.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#194

Post by layer8 »

arjonagelhout wrote: post #147

This indicates to me that the Apple Vision and visionOS product line and OS are not canceled internally and that Apple is still committed to its future. While the Apple Vision Pro itself is not a good or successful product, progress in display technology will enable Apple to build a more attractive consumer product, in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses. In this line of thinking — not just focu…

The product line not being cancelled hasn’t been in question lately: https://www.macrumors.com/roundup/apple-vision-pro/#apple-vi...

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#195

Post by wat10000 »

andsoitis wrote: post #190
wat10000 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POSIX? C++? HTML? USB? There are plenty of existing open standards that Apple conforms and contributes to. When open source types complain about this, I always enjoy the irony that macOS is POSIX compliant while Linux is not.

Those are fantastic examples. At the same time it begs the question: why does Apple not play nicely with graphics standards? It could be that the those standards bodies are dysfunctional or too slow so Apple has to go their own way. However, I suspect that that is not the main reason.

Being too slow certainly seems to be part of it. Metal was released two years before Vulkan, for example.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#196

Post by lynndotpy »

tim-- wrote: post #86
theshrike79 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Apple should do is drive a truckload of money on Valve's doorstep and get a Proton-like system built for M-series Macs.

They have done that. They gave some cash money to CodeWeavers, the company that created wine. It's called the Game Porting Toolkit: https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/

They have not done that, though. With Proton, almost every Windows game on Steam "Just Works" (and many others do with a small amount of configuration.)

As far as I can tell, there is no way for a player to use GPT to run games from their Steam library on Mac.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#197

Post by lynndotpy »

jonplackett wrote: post #137
elAhmo wrote: post #106

Both users of visionOS are happy about this announcement.

This is sad but true. I was so excited about the Vision and desperate to get one. Finally my company has bought one for testing and I’m honestly not sure what to even use it for. Maybe a big screen Mac? Is that it? I think Apple has fallen into the same dead end they did with Apple TV: no controller = no games. Both Apple TV and Vision Pro could have been filled with games from indie devs. But it’s impossible to play…

I wonder how much of it can be blamed on the Vision Pro being nothing more than a big wobbly iPod Touch, instead of a real computer.

For me, a Vision Pro would have been fantastically useful if it was a little bit more like MacOS (or Android), and shipped with a native, real terminal that I could run things on. $3500 is suddenly a lot easier to swallow if I could think about it like 20 monitors to run terminals on.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#198

Post by klabb3 »

frosting1337 wrote: post #34

Apple should flick Godot a chunk of change to properly get this rolling.

Yeah I don’t get it either. A drive-by PR without even offering hardware for testing? The entitlement around OSS these days… One of the richest companies in the world, and then ”but open source should benefit everyone, it’s discrimination if you single out trillion dollar corporations”. Dude..

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#199

Post by freedomben »

eksu wrote: post #43
skeptrune wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The visionOS platform doesn't have OpenGL support, as it's not supported by visionOS. Hell would freeze over before Apple conformed and contributed to an existing open standard. They even failed to follow the Godot contribution guide for the PR itself.

OpenGL is quite dated for VR/AR. In the Apple ecosystem they supported OpenGL 4.1 for quite some time before moving to Metal, which was announced 2 years before Vulkan. If you spent the time developing an in house graphics API since open standards weren’t moving forward, why would you rewrite everything a second time just a few years later? Shouldn’t you expect to get a decade or two out of your existing API and only…

> If you spent the time developing an in house graphics API since open standards weren’t moving forward, why would you rewrite everything a second time just a few years later? Shouldn’t you expect to get a decade or two out of your existing API and only do the massive rewrite when the benefits become more substantial?

I have a natural inclination to agree with this thinking, but I think it's important to recognize that this is the sunk cost fallacy at work[1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#200

Post by boogieknite »

andsoitis wrote: post #184
_mlbt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spatial computing.

Spatial computing is to interact with and manipulate 3D space—blending the physical and digital worlds. It enables users to understand, interpret, and respond to the geometry, position, and movement of real-world environments. I fail to see that as a future mode of user/computer interaction that competes with or augments mobile/laptop computer usage in any meaningful way. Even movie watching, the most successful appl…

as an avp hobby dev i dont disagree with your prediction. its a product i want and think is good, but im sure most people dont want and think is bad.

i somewhat agree with your solution looking for a problem statement but i think a potential application for spatial computing is data collection and presentation. think of how many businesses depend on filling out forms to report on the state of a physical object/equipment. a spatial component where that form now has a location in space and the scene with the object can be reconstructed for review is valuable for businesses. to clarify, this is a case for spatial computing, not the avp. the avp is nowhere near rugged enough to do the job safely and one day the data collection is best handled by drones

Post reply on HN