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Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

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Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#191
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a spin off of Via that makes 386 or 486 clones still today...forget the name but you can find them out there.

DM&P? I think their "Vortex86" range seems to be the modern take on "low-end x86 designed for embedded markets". Wonder what happened to some of the others-- the ALI embedded 386SX seems to be suddenly popular in those "Pocket 386" laptops, but I'd expect there are warehouses full of old AMD Elan/NSC Geode style parts waiting to get tapped.

i am fairly certain i have an AMD geode device and while it is tiny (4x3x1.5 inches), it certainly isn't low power, compared to a rapsberry pi or an intel quark.

also those vortex86 are pricey, around the same price as a NUC, at least for the daughtercards, and none really looked "general purpose" although i guess a daughtercard with a computer on it was not unprecedented. apple and amiga both had such. i think apple even did apple on apple before anyone else considered if this was a good idea

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#192
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people sell or give away fully functional, very powerful mobile phones, because of the end of the software support. Hardware is more than capable for a long time, and is often very durable. But it takes a special kind of audience to put up with decade-old unsupported software, let alone with IBM XT-level software (which I remember using). Security is not a consideration for such devices, because of their very li…

The unique thing about an IBM PC compatible like this is that it has an absolutely massive library of software that will continue to work and be "supported".

You've touched on one of my favorite things about using this. There's so much software easily available for it that I could never even try it all even in 10 lifetimes. And it's easy to store too. For example, lets say the average program is 1MB. Then a tiny 128GB SD card could store somewhat more than 100,000 programs. Still not enough? This thing supports at least up to 512GB SD cards, which could hold something close to 500,000 1MB programs. I haven't tried 1TB yet. You can also store dozens of spare SD cards in the CPU compartment, so you can easily have more storage space and more software than you could ever use.

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#194
post #176
post #97

Just what George R.R. Martin could use if his actual XT ever went kaputski.

Wasn't he using a Kaypro running CP/M?

Every source I've seen says it's a DOS machine with WordStar 4.0. I could have sworn I saw that it was an XT-clasd machine, but I can't source that detail right now.

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#195
post #178
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does clone mean?

It means the author is fond of just making shit up. "I built an XT 'clone' [that doesn't even target the same CPU as an XT]"

Clone meant, at least back in the day, that it was compatible with software written for the IBM XT. There were many clones with more ram, 3.5” disk drives, or better CPU (NEC V20) than the original IBM XT but they all ran MS DOS and WordPerfect and Accolade Test Drive and any other software you would expect so they were considered ‘XT clones’

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#196

This is running under emulation, but I wonder if the power savings would be even more (an order of magnitude?) if the hardware was "gate accurate" to the original but shrunken down to a modern CMOS process. I find it amusing that the keyboard has a Windows key. Does anyone recognise what laptop it was originally from? It can't be a Thinkpad since there's no pointing stick, and I seem to remember some early Dells havi…

I'm the guy who built this. I use the windows key to open up the run-time settings menu where you can do things like mount floppy disk images, turn on or off different emulated sound cards (adlib, DSS, covox, midi), switch keyboard layouts, change CPU speed, hibernate, etc. Or long pressing the windows key inverts the pixels. Usually a white background with black text looks a lot better than the reverse, but some programs default to the reverse, so it's nice to have a quick way to re-reverse it. Similarly, I use the "menu" key to the right of the space bar to do a quick refresh of the screen (which redraws all the black pixels making sure they're totally black, in case occasionally some look a little washed out -- rare problem but nice to have a quick solution), or long press to do a long refresh of the screen (where it actually turns all black and then restores the image, which takes about a full second) which makes all the blacks totally black and all the whites totally white. Neither of these refresh functions need to be used very often, maybe once every two or three hours you'll see a situation where you want to use one.

They keyboard is not from a laptop. It's a stand-alone PS/2 keyboard that I removed from its original enclosure and installed in the 3d printed enclosure for this computer. I get them from https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=561534245819&skuId=52612... (the "KJW240/10寸PS/2圆口(线长140cm" option). I cut the cord down to about 35cm, since the original cords are way too long, and crimp on a PH2.0 plug which plugs into the motherboard internally. Don't know whether or not you can buy this keyboard outside China. Maybe it's sold on AliExpress too. I tried out a lot of different keyboards before choosing this one. My criteria was pretty hard to meet: must have windows and menu keys, must have left and right shift keys (some keyboards actually don't have a right shift key!), must have both delete and backspace keys (some keyboards don't have a delete key), must have print screen scroll lock, numlock, number keypad (activated by numlock), pause/break, insert keys. Not many miniature modern keyboards actually have all those. It had to be small enough to fit on this computer but big enough to be able to type on fairly naturally. And it had to have pretty low power consumption. This keyboard takes about 6-7mA. Many keyboards I tried took between 30-40mA, more than the CPU itself. The thing I dislike most about this keyboard is the home key being between the quote and enter keys, and the up arrow key being where the right shift key should be. That's a really unfortunate design problem. But its a lot better than a lot of keyboards, and its something I was able to get pretty used to after a few days of typing. Still, I do plan to build my own keyboard to replace this in the future, one with a processor that sleeps between keystrokes so it can consume less than 1mA on average, and that has a standard key layout.

Since you can also plug in a PS/2 keyboard of your choice on the right side of the device, I had to consider the situation where someone plugs in an older keyboard that doesn't have the windows and menu keys. In that case they can use the F11 key to replace the windows key, and the F12 key to replace the menu key, as these two keys were not present on many keyboards and not used by software from the DOS era either.

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#197
post #19

Take my money. No, really, this is precisely the sort of thing I've wanted for ages, and I don't have the time or resources to build it myself.

I don't know if you've seen the videos, but the latency from input to result on the screen is, very, very bad. I don't think this is actually what you want. We all want low-power retro computing but expect reasonable latency in usage. We also want WIFI working in every room and e-ink that doesn't suck and doesn't cost half a car... And the ability to browse the web (HTTPS). It's just not there yet. When someone will…

The latency from keypress to screen is 0.3 seconds for the first keypress, and about 0.4 seconds for all keypresses after that, until the next pause in typing.

This device is not, of course, intended to be able to perform modern functions that are required for modern office work. Its goal is to never run out of power, and its design tries to prioritize that at the expense of everything else, including features and performance. Because for anyone that loves computers as much as I do, a computer that will power up and provide a virtually unlimited amount of software, games, programming and software development options, and connectivity is better than a more modern and faster computer that won't turn on because it has no power. This computer can run for 500-1000 hours using power saving mode, and 200 hours without power saving mode. And with the built in solar panel, there should be ample opportunities to recharge it (or just run it directly off sunlight instead of using the batteries) before it the batteries run down. In a situation where people have to adjust to living in the long term without electricity, modern office computing is unlikely to be required, nor will there be any Internet. But in that situation, I still want to have a computer that I can use to do pretty much anything. This gives me that.

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#198
post #6

Not an XT clone per se. XT had 8088 CPU, CGA/Hercules display adapter, and a 640KB RAM with a PC speaker. This one has 80186 and 1MB RAM with MCGA (VGA) and Adlib emulation too. It's better than an XT.

It is an "XT clone" in the sense that the term was used back in the 1980s. In that era, there were a whole bunch of "IBM PC clones" "IBM XT clones" "IBM AT clones", all different in some ways than the original IBM brand computers from which they "cloned", but, at least in theory, all providing compatibility with at least all the features of their namesakes, and usually some additional features or performance improvements as well. Including XT clones with V20, V30, and 80186 processors. So in this "traditional" sense, this is indeed an "XT clone", in that it will run all the software that would run on an XT, plus it has many additional features as well. Likewise, I can't call it an "AT clone", because it can't run all the software that an AT could run.

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#199
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it does not matter in practice, let's say you do a full refresh once a second, it would take more than 11 days to do 1 million refreshes, if you do full refresh once a minute, it would take 2 years

Those numbers don't seem high, at all, for me. Typing would probably cause a refresh more often than every second and even if it's delayed to be once, every second, it's still only 11 days.

For eink reader is more than enough, for digital typewriter eink is not good choice for display, there are high contrast lcd displays with in-pixel memory that can be used

Re: Evertop: E-ink IBM XT clone with 100+ hours of battery life

#200
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means the author is fond of just making shit up. "I built an XT 'clone' [that doesn't even target the same CPU as an XT]"

Clone meant, at least back in the day, that it was compatible with software written for the IBM XT. There were many clones with more ram, 3.5” disk drives, or better CPU (NEC V20) than the original IBM XT but they all ran MS DOS and WordPerfect and Accolade Test Drive and any other software you would expect so they were considered ‘XT clones’

Sure. I remember that marketplace very well.

And until a couple of days ago, I never heard anyone mention an "XT clone" as being an emulated 80186 on an ESP32 with almost none of the IO or expansion capabilities of an XT.

That appears to be a new usement of the term; an invention, if you will, or a perversion if you won't.

(I can emulate an XT with my pocket supercomputer. It's fun to play with that kind of thing sometimes. But to call it a "clone" is going too far.)

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