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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#191

Post by cpursley »

kstenerud wrote: post #165
kleene_op wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was exactly my sentiment. My parents pushed me hard to do piano when I was around 10-12. After a year that went pretty well I was starting to get lazy and put very little work and investment into preparing for the next lesson. They still had me play piano a full year until they eventually gave up and bitterly told me what a waste my resignation felt to them. 20 years later, I got back to playing piano, and I can…

My parents forced me to play piano, right up until I told them that I'll destroy our piano if they don't lay off, and any consequences they could think of would not stop me (I was normally an obedient child, but enough was enough). That got their attention. 30 years later I picked up classical guitar and loved it! Do I thank my parents for forcing the piano on me? Hell no.

Like I commented in another post, piano gave you the foundation for learning classical guitar (and appreciating that genre of music). Very few guitar players can even recognize note names on a staff. You’re not going to get far with classical guitar without it.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#192

Post by Viliam1234 »

sssilver wrote: post #115
seethedeaduu wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah let's turn otherwise fun hobbies into a forced chore, that will surely be great for the kid. Forcing kids to learn to spell when they have learning difficulties (eg dyslexia) doesn't usually go well either it's just causing suffering for the kid.

The problem is that it’s extremely difficult for any activity like math, music, or drawing to compete with Minecraft and YouTube shorts.

Kinda yes, but there are some solutions.

I think the most important part is to start early. Make your kids interested in math, music, art, and sport, before they start school. Doesn't have to be anything sophisticated, simple addition and puzzles will do for math, etc. Then you have something you can later build on.

There are also ways to make things funny, including math. Most people say that they hate math, but then they do Sudoku. So, try to make more math like this. Not all math can be transformed to funny puzzles, but after a few the kids will get positive associations with the subject, and will be more willing to learn more.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#193

Post by imtringued »

pipes wrote: post #112
somenameforme wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This becomes even more true in higher level maths where programming language style functions would make everything vastly more clear, and easily typeable, than the traditional Greek symbols. sum(x+3, 1, 4) is just so much more clear (and consistent when generalized across other operations) and practically as concise as the mathematical way of expressing that which I cannot even type. Multiple variables would be a bit…

Thanks for this comment. My secret shame as a programmer is that I haven't really learnt much maths, stopped at 16 in school. Writing out the sum function like you did makes perfect sense to me immediately. What I should really do is create myself a cheat sheet of symbols to code...

Just read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_mathematical_sym...

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#194

Post by dandanua »

ykonstant wrote: post #159
milesrout wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids left to their own devices don't explore the world. They play video games and scroll on social media.

If that is the world you are providing, that is the world they will explore.

It appears that no sane parents will allow their kids to extensively explore the world that the modern society is currently providing.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#195

Post by Viliam1234 »

ykonstant wrote: post #159
milesrout wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids left to their own devices don't explore the world. They play video games and scroll on social media.

If that is the world you are providing, that is the world they will explore.

It is not just me who "provides the world" to my children. Also their classmates, etc. And the internet: even when someone uses it to achieve a purpose, there are various ads and algorithms that try to turn you towards something else.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#196

Post by cpursley »

milesrout wrote: post #136
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the kid isn't enjoying the piano lessons, will forcing them to do it for 20 minutes every day really be beneficial? Sure, they will now be able to do something - something that they absolutely hate... (also, why is it always piano that parents try to force on children?)

They don't hate it. They dislike being bad at it, they dislike working hard at things, and they like video games and scrolling on their phones. And yes practicing will result in them getting better.

Insane you’re getting downvoted, this 100% and then some. There’s a clear difference in outcomes between kids taught self-discipline and those who are raised standard Anglo-American ADHD style once they become adults.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#197

Post by cpursley »

seethedeaduu wrote: post #114
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

Oh yeah let's turn otherwise fun hobbies into a forced chore, that will surely be great for the kid. Forcing kids to learn to spell when they have learning difficulties (eg dyslexia) doesn't usually go well either it's just causing suffering for the kid.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue for Asian families or ones coming the from former Soviet block as well as Jewish ones. These groups as adults tend to outperform others. There’s a reason for that: early childhood discipline and consistency being built into their cultures.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#198

Post by __s »

rerdavies wrote: post #166
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

You're using yourself as a refuting example, but at the end you disqualify yourself by being 4th out of 20000 in some undisclosed math ranking

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#199

Post by cpursley »

dandanua wrote: post #189
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

> Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. I guess it's true for adult humans, and other creatures as well. Instead of pushing, however, you should consider using other motivational methods (a simple prize for accomplishing something that you want from your kids works very well). Pushing can cause alienation and hate, which could affect their entire adult life.

It’s amazing how far the promise of a sticker or special treat will go for young ones.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#200

Post by cpursley »

paganel wrote: post #118
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

The world needs less Asian kids being forced to play piano since a very early age and it needs more kids (Asian and not only) that are left to explore the world. Without that exploration the kids won't make the world their world, at best they'd only make it a bad approximation of what we, our (older) generation, best think that that world should be.

Except they are now, wealthy Chinese are one of the most rapidly growing segment of tourists. Wanna guess what the wealthy successful ones learned as kids? That’s right: piano and math.
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