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I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

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Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#191

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Perhaps. Then how do you handle the computer being confidently wrong a large proportion of the time? From my experience it's inaccurate in proportion to the significance of the task. So by the time it's writing real code it's more wrong than right. How can you turn that into something useful? I don't think the system around us is configured to handle such an unreliable agent. I don't want things in my life to be less…

As long as it’s right more than random chance, it’s potentially useful - you just have to iterate enough times to reach your desired level of statistical certainty. If you take the current trend of the cost of inference and assume that’s going to continue for even a few more cycles, then we already have sufficient accuracy in current models to more than satisfy the hype.

I'm not following the statistical argument.

Firstly, something has to verify the work is correct right? Assuming you have a robust way to do this (even with humans coding it's challenging!), at some point the accuracy is so low that it's faster to create it manually than verify many times - a problem I frequently run into with LLM autocomplete and small scale features.

Second, on certain topics the LLM is biased towards the wrong answer and is further biased by previous wrong reasoning if it's building off itself. It becomes less likely that the LLM will choose the right method. Without strong guidance it will iterate itself to garbage, as we see with vibe coding shenanigans. How would you iterate on an entire application created by LLM, if any individual step it takes is likely to be wrong?

Third, I reckon it's just plain inefficient to iterate many times to get something we humans could've gotten correct in 1 or 2 tries. Many people seem to forget the environmental impact from running AI models. Personally I think we need to be doing less of everything, not producing more stuff at an increasing rate (even if the underlying technology gets incrementally more efficient).

Now maybe these things are solved by future models, in which case I will be more excited then and only then. It does seem like an open question whether this technology will keep scaling to where we hope it will be.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#192

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I think the difference is between people who accept nondeterministic behavior from their computers and those who don’t. If you accept your computer being confidently wrong some unknowable percentage of the time, then LLMs are miraculous and game changing software. If you don’t, then the same LLMs are defective and unreliable toys, not suitable as serious tools. People have different expectations out of computers, and…

Perhaps. Then how do you handle the computer being confidently wrong a large proportion of the time? From my experience it's inaccurate in proportion to the significance of the task. So by the time it's writing real code it's more wrong than right. How can you turn that into something useful? I don't think the system around us is configured to handle such an unreliable agent. I don't want things in my life to be less…

Filters. If you can come up with a problem where incorrect solutions can be filtered out, and you accept that LLM outputs are closer to a correct answer than a random string then LLM's are a way to get to a correct answer faster than previously possible for a whole class of problems we previously didn't have answer generators for.

And that's just the theory, in practice the LLM's are orders of magnitude closer to generating correct answers than anything we previously had.

And then there's the meta aspect of them: they can also act as filters themselves. What is possible if you can come with filters for almost any problem a human can filter for, even if that filter has a chance of being incorrect? The possibilities are impossible to tell, but to me very exciting/worrying. LLM's really have expanded the realm of what it is possible to do with a computer. And in a much more useful domain than fintech.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#193
post #31

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Fourth type: smart people who like hype because hype is fun and having fun is good.

That's the third type actually. But for some reason GP decided to qualify each type as either smart or dumb. Here's put better: there's 3 types of people: those who resist hype, those who profit off of it, and those who enjoy it.

Exactly, and since it's good to profit, and it's good to have fun, surely it's the smart people who are doing that, and the dumb people who are resisting.

I certainly feel dumb for dismissing crypto as only an effective store of value with some minor improvements over the status quo (and some downsides) without considering the implications.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#194
post #55

There's three types of people w.r.t hype: smart people who resist hype, smart people who want to profit off of it, and dumb people who like it. The first type of person already agrees with you. The second type knows but doesn't care. The third isn't going to read this article.

The really smart people are those who figure out which part of the hype is real and which is exaggerated.

No, the really smart people, and I mean really really smart, are the ones who figured out how to teach rocks to think.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the hype materializes, it can still change course. Learned some classical ASP to join the web dev hype? Well, tough luck. The hype was good but materialized in another vessel. If you learned enough fundamentals, you could still jump ship. But what are the fundamentals for LLM? Hype rarely reveals them right away. For LLMs, tough luck. You can't learn fundamentals with your toy PC yet. You need to be rich and have…

I agree that situations are much more complex than an economic analysis. And I'm completely onboard with doing the things that take your interest. I do agree with most of the points you're making, and for some I can clarify the direction of my thoughts: > But what are the fundamentals for LLM? Hype rarely reveals them right away. I think this is true, and that it is actually a core component of hype: it is not intere…

I meant "premise", and reality.

In the economic competition frame you initially used, they are not that strong.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#196

They should have let an AI check their spelling and grammar, maybe they wouldn’t have used “loose” instead of “lose” multiple times.

Grammarly is among the best applications of LLMs I have seen. I'm glad to be paying for it. It even detects and modifies "typical AI phrases," which is ironic.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that situations are much more complex than an economic analysis. And I'm completely onboard with doing the things that take your interest. I do agree with most of the points you're making, and for some I can clarify the direction of my thoughts: > But what are the fundamentals for LLM? Hype rarely reveals them right away. I think this is true, and that it is actually a core component of hype: it is not intere…

I meant "premise", and reality. In the economic competition frame you initially used, they are not that strong.

Hmm I think I see what you mean - and that's fair.

I guess I'm a bit too conservative to trust I'd get out soon enough (in financial investment, or work time spent) if the hype doesn't materialise. And if it does, there's always time to learn a new domain, etc.

Fancy me pushing into the Late Majority of the bell curve. Must be getting old.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#198
post #74

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>> Would not the author have claimed at the time that those technologies were also "hype"? What consistent principle does the author use (a priori) to separate "useful facts" from "hype"? Are you saying someone hyped ... databases? In the same way as AI is hyped today? This is a tweet from Sam Altman, dated April 18 2025: https://x.com/sama/status/1913320105804730518 Whence I quote: i think this is gonna be more like…

Sure, databases didn't get as much hype but that's partly because they are old. Look at something more recent: "cloud", "social networking", "blockchain", "mobile". Plenty of hype! Some delivered, some didn't.

Even blockchain didn't have the degree of hype as this AI stuff.

The CEO of Google said that AI would be as profound as fire in revolutionizing humanity. People are saying that it will replace all intellectual labor in the near term and then all physical labor soon afterwards.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#199
post #185

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>It was never this level of AI. You're completely out of it. We couldn't even get AI to hold a freaking conversation. It was so bad we came up with this thing called the turing test and that was the benchmark. Now people like you are all, like "well it's obvious the turing test was garbage". No. It's not obvious. It's the hype got to your head. If we found a way to travel at light speed for 3 dollars the hype would b…

I invite you to reread what I wrote and think about your comment. You’re making a rampant straw man, literally putting in quotes things I have never said or argued for. Please engage with what was written, not the imaginary enemy in your head. There’s no reason for you to be this irrationally angry.

You wish I didn’t read it. You said we never wished for this “level” of AI.

We did man. We did. And we couldn’t even approach 2 percent of what we wished for and everybody knew we couldn’t even approach that.

Now we have AI that approaches 70 percent of what we wished for. It’s AI smarter than a mentally retarded person. That means current AI is likely smarter than 10 percent of the population.

Then we have geniuses like you and the poster complaining about how we never wished for this. No. We wished for way less than this and got more.

Re: I passionately hate hype, especially the AI hype

#200
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is talking about a financial bubble. That's orthoganol. Something can be worth zero and still be fucking amazing. The blog post is talking about the hype in general and about AI in general. It is not just referring to the financial opportunity. You can use chatGPT for free. Does that mean it's total shit because openAI allowed you to use it for free? No. It's still freaking revolutionary.

> Something can be worth zero and still be fucking amazing. Gull-wing doors on cars. Both awesome and flawed.

I was thinking more like oxygen.

Amazing because without it you’re dead meat. But nobody gives a shit about it because it’s everywhere and free.

That’s what LLMs are. They are everywhere and too readily accessible so people end up just complaining about too much hype.

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