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Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

micahflee.com

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Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#191

Post by squigz »

Hasz wrote: post #187
jonathanlb wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said, except your last sentence. As a parent, and as a gun owner, I'm fine with there being gun control that leads to no more school shootings. And no, you can't depend on a "good guy with a gun" (Uvalde, Parkland). I don't know what the solution is, to be honest, but other countries don't have the school shooting problem the US has.

There is no gun control that leads to no school shootings. It is simply not possible. The best thing we can do is to address the root cause, and react as quickly as possible when there is a problem. We have police presence at basically every single public arena -- government buildings, hospitals, stadiums, malls, etc; we should have police presence at schools too, along with the training to do their jobs effectively.…

> I think this is a uniquely American problem because America is a unique country. No other nations have the incredible wealth, diversity, and rights of America, and looking to other countries to emulate is imo, a mistake.

Other than the "right to bear arms", what rights do Americans have that sets them apart?

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#192

Post by squigz »

875368945 wrote: post #176
squigz wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there were a magic weapon Ah yes, paint the issue as only solvable by a "magic" item... Of course, trying to make the other side seem fundamentally silly is a primary tactic of the pro-gun crowd > only be used to defend yourself, and not for offensive purposes, then sure! Of course not, but the question is more the damage one can do when used for offensive purposes. Anyway, here's your magic solutions. https://e…

> Of course, trying to make the other side seem fundamentally silly is a primary tactic of the pro-gun crowd I don't think "the other side" is fundamentally silly--that's just the way I write. I take "the other side" extremely seriously because, like I mentioned, I've been to pro gun control protests, and while I now disagree with some of those positions, I have genuine respect for where you're coming from. In terms…

If you didn't mean it like that, I apologize. It's just a very common tactic of gun people, and I'm frustrated. Thank you for the links.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#193

Post by Animats »

Hasz wrote: post #187
jonathanlb wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said, except your last sentence. As a parent, and as a gun owner, I'm fine with there being gun control that leads to no more school shootings. And no, you can't depend on a "good guy with a gun" (Uvalde, Parkland). I don't know what the solution is, to be honest, but other countries don't have the school shooting problem the US has.

There is no gun control that leads to no school shootings. It is simply not possible. The best thing we can do is to address the root cause, and react as quickly as possible when there is a problem. We have police presence at basically every single public arena -- government buildings, hospitals, stadiums, malls, etc; we should have police presence at schools too, along with the training to do their jobs effectively.…

> There is no gun control that leads to no school shootings. It is simply not possible.

Outside the US, it is.[1]

[1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-sh...

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#194

Post by amy214 »

lurk2 wrote: post #38
ferguess_k wrote: post #9

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if these organizations are infested with FBI agents.

Both organizations have had reputations for being honeypots as early as 2016. There have been a number of instances of federal agents becoming embedded in the organizational structures of groups like this (see e.g. the Malheur Wildlife Standoff and the plot to assassinate Gretchen Whitmer). Groups of this scale tend to fall into one of three categories: 1) They are honeypots set up by policing and / or intelligence a…

A telling example where such a ploy failed to play out and got exposed was Ruby Ridge. An independently minded off-grid man with his family, some loose social contacts with a nearby neo-nazi group. Randomly gets paid to turn a 16 inch shotgun into a 15 inch shotgun, which is a felony crime, now they blackmail him to hook up with the neo nazis and inform or take those sawing off of a shotgun type charges. Ended up with a standoff outside their house when a dog barking at agents snooping around became a gunfight, lost his wife and newborn kid to an overly exuberant DEA sniper

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#195

Post by secretsatan »

kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #81
dmos62 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their insignia has the germanic wolf that is clearly meant to resonate with WW2 german, Nazi military symbolism. In its early days they had leaders that were overt Neonazis. No one is denying that, and I have no love for the far-right. But, what extreme acts of injustice have they committed? Have they been less than adamant defenders of their home, from an invasion with genocidal, maximalist goals, of all things? The…

Maybe I'm the crazy one, but I personally consider any group that worships nazis to be an extremist group. If they were in the US and hadn't done any kind of "extremist act" I would feel the same way.

Ukrainian Nazi groups apparently always had problems making connections with other Nazi groups because they were all pro-russia

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#196

Post by mnky9800n »

amy214 wrote: post #194
lurk2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both organizations have had reputations for being honeypots as early as 2016. There have been a number of instances of federal agents becoming embedded in the organizational structures of groups like this (see e.g. the Malheur Wildlife Standoff and the plot to assassinate Gretchen Whitmer). Groups of this scale tend to fall into one of three categories: 1) They are honeypots set up by policing and / or intelligence a…

A telling example where such a ploy failed to play out and got exposed was Ruby Ridge. An independently minded off-grid man with his family, some loose social contacts with a nearby neo-nazi group. Randomly gets paid to turn a 16 inch shotgun into a 15 inch shotgun, which is a felony crime, now they blackmail him to hook up with the neo nazis and inform or take those sawing off of a shotgun type charges. Ended up wit…

And this led eventually to the Oklahoma City bombing as Timothy mcveigh said he was motivated by this and Waco.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#197

Post by aja12 »

Hasz wrote: post #187
jonathanlb wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you said, except your last sentence. As a parent, and as a gun owner, I'm fine with there being gun control that leads to no more school shootings. And no, you can't depend on a "good guy with a gun" (Uvalde, Parkland). I don't know what the solution is, to be honest, but other countries don't have the school shooting problem the US has.

There is no gun control that leads to no school shootings. It is simply not possible. The best thing we can do is to address the root cause, and react as quickly as possible when there is a problem. We have police presence at basically every single public arena -- government buildings, hospitals, stadiums, malls, etc; we should have police presence at schools too, along with the training to do their jobs effectively.…

First of all, I'm not a gun control activist, and I do agree with some of your views.

However:

> I think this is a uniquely American problem because America is a unique country. No other nations have the incredible wealth, diversity, and rights of America, and looking to other countries to emulate is imo, a mistake.

- increased wealth should be correlated with a reduction in shootings,

- population diversity is not a unique feature of the USA, it is comparable, or arguably lower, than most European countries,

- same for rights: the rights of a USA citizen are comparable to the average EU citizen. Many EU countries allow the possession of guns (although most forbid taking arms out of one's home unless it's for transport, e.g., to the firing range, and most EU states vehemently forbid concealed carry). There are some differences regarding Free Speech, however, where most EU countries allow it largely, but restrict hate speech more.

It's true that shootings are a somewhat unique USA problem, but I'd look more into cultural differences than into rights and demographics.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#198

Post by noneeeed »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #97
noneeeed wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha, thank you.

The Scorsese movie "The Departed" is both a remake of a film made in Hong Kong ("Infernal Affairs") and a semi-realistic depiction of the Boston Winter Hill Gang led by Bulger.

Thanks, I hadn't known about the connection. It's a great film.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#199

Post by gadders »

lupusreal wrote: post #146
gadders wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite funny on 4chan and similar places watching everyone accuse everyone else that protests in some way of being a fed. Which I guess is job done for the security services.

Since Chanology, it has been known by anybody paying attention and keeping score that taking 4chan into the real world is extremely cringe and must always be criticized. Whether it's organizing political protests on 4chan or anything else even remotely like that, its cringe and anybody suggesting it deserves to be flamed.

Is this ancient lore I am unaware of?

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#200

Post by gadders »

gadders wrote: post #125
wildzzz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the small group that tried to kidnap Whitmer had a suspected 12 informants and agents (3 confirmed informants, 2 agents) in the group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_pl...

Jan 6th had loads of FBI informants as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn850jj44mjo
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