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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#191

Post by ty6853 »

citrin_ru wrote: post #188
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Ze…

It's plausible that Trump owes some $$$ but what would stop Trump from just refusing to pay the debt back?

It would come as no surprise if Russian intelligence has some juicy blackmail material.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#193

Post by throwaway290 »

thenthenthen wrote: post #167
nicbou wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you are outsourcing the work of grinding Russia’s military down. You get to deplete a geopolitical foe at a bargain, without spilling American blood. There is also the moral argument that you are supporting Ukraine in a war of aggression started by Russia. My fear is that conceding anything to Russia just gives it an opportunity to regroup, rearm and finish the job. Appeasement has not worked…

I recently had a discussion with someone more senior than me and they were convinced that the whole deal was about resources in the first place. If anyone has some references and thoughts about this, please share.

I have thoughts. Maybe biased because I'm Russian.

Imagine I maimed a guy on the street because he was walking too slowly. Was "the whole deal" about him walking too slowly? Yes and no. He was walking slow. But also I was a violent psycho.

Imagine I killed my wife because she was wearing the wrong skirt and looked at another man. Was the whole deal about my wife behaving how I don't like? Yes and no. She was behaving in some way. But also I was a violent psycho.

People come up with all sorts if rationalizations and I definitely heard both "Ukraine had resources Russia needed" and "Ukraine was willing to sell resources to US".

Resources? Excuse me, look at the map? You know that tiny Netherlands beats Russia in agriculture exports. Russia has the most reserves of mineral resources of any country in the world. The country has insane resources already and its corrupt government is unable to make good use of them.

But anyway. They say Ukraine was willing to sell resources to US (those people like to use loaded phrases like "US wanted to siphon resources from Ukraine") and Putin didn't like it? Well there's a well known way to solve this "problem": offer a better deal, don't be a dick, invest, stuff also called "diplimacy".

Resources, NATO, US military complex, whatever, mostly those things are bullshit, maybe they did motivate Putin, who knows. It's just mentioning those things with a solemn face full of insight as if they explain something is what paints a person as Putin supporter and aggression apologists in my eyes. Because none of those things justify the choice of mass murder by a violent psycho.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#194

Post by hulitu »

amarcheschi wrote: post #86

I know very well it's a drop in the ocean, you can donate to ukraine here https://u24.gov.ua/ You can decide how to allocate your donation, defense, demining, humanitarian aid (...)

Web server is down Error code 521 Visit cloudflare.com for more information.

I just wanted to see if there is a section for peace and reconstruction. /s

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#195

Post by hulitu »

olivermuty wrote: post #138
jesterson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are trying to veer the convo in another direction, but to address it - it's been 3 years, hundreds of thousands died, and absolutely nothing achieved. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So you want to achieve that the illegal agressor wins…? The Ukrainians certainly does not want the war to end this way.

> illegal agressor

Are there any "legal agressors" ?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#196

Post by ellis0n »

ty6853 wrote: post #146
ellis0n wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what’s next? Sleep on the street? Rent is expensive, I’ve already tried and it’s impossible without any income. Sure, thanks for the advice, but I’ll need to work, not just travel. I need the same big monitor for work, a good chair, and usually these things aren’t available, so I end up working in terrible conditions.

[flagged]

Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you got out of that mess and recovered. That's good advice and I've been through something similar myself a while ago. Back then, I tried working in a taxi, but programming ended up saving me. Now, if things keep going this way and AI starts taking over IT jobs, it’s quite possible I’ll have to work as a driver for Uber, where there aren’t as many AGI robots yet.

For now, I still wanted to focus on building startups and developing humanity's economy, which is what I'm best at.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#197

Post by amarcheschi »

hulitu wrote: post #194
amarcheschi wrote: post #86

I know very well it's a drop in the ocean, you can donate to ukraine here https://u24.gov.ua/ You can decide how to allocate your donation, defense, demining, humanitarian aid (...)

Web server is down Error code 521 Visit cloudflare.com for more information. I just wanted to see if there is a section for peace and reconstruction. /s

At least for me it is working right now. Anyway, the full sections are

Defense

Humanitarian aid

Medical aid

Rebuild ukraine

Education and science

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#198

Post by mu53 »

thenthenthen wrote: post #167
nicbou wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you are outsourcing the work of grinding Russia’s military down. You get to deplete a geopolitical foe at a bargain, without spilling American blood. There is also the moral argument that you are supporting Ukraine in a war of aggression started by Russia. My fear is that conceding anything to Russia just gives it an opportunity to regroup, rearm and finish the job. Appeasement has not worked…

I recently had a discussion with someone more senior than me and they were convinced that the whole deal was about resources in the first place. If anyone has some references and thoughts about this, please share.

Most of this narrative comes from Mike Benz who is a former State Department employee that has began trying to educate people on some of the shadier aspects of US Diplomacy. A major facet that he talks about is how the US combines NGOs and non-government investment in order to achieve diplomatic goals.

After the 2014 invasion, the US realized that breaking EU dependence on Russia natural gas would put a serious dent in Putin's wallet.

In response, various groups within the military industrial complex decided to invest into Burisma, where Hunter Biden was oddly a board member with little experience. Burisma's goal was to develop the mineral and natural gas deposits in the Donbas region. Ultimately, Burisma was prevented from this mission because of the 2022 war.

[1]: this interview on Joe Rogan is pretty eye-opening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrJhQpvlkLA&t=9675s&pp=ygUOa...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#199

Post by mandmandam »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67
jltsiren wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an i…

Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Ze…

They (the GOP, Democrats, national and intl intelligence agencies) all have blackmail on each other. It hasn't made sense to think about these issues purely on national lines for a long time - try thinking in terms of a large international mafia with various families and factions; held together by unspeakable secrets.

Sarah Kendzior and Whitney Webb produce great writing about this, thoroughly sourced. For example, here's a piece from Sarah's latest newsletter Q and A:

> What is the hold that Trump has over the Republicans? It has to be more than simply the threat of a primary. Do you think it involves threats of violence? It's a mystery to me what could be so frightening that this large group of people would forsake their country.

> SK: Trump has leverage over the GOP due to 1) lifelong connections with organized crime and willingness to deploy violence 2) blackmail obtained long before 2016 via his mentor, mafia lawyer and GOP advisor Roy Cohn, and Cohn’s networks 3) blackmail and state secrets Trump obtained during his first term 4) court packing that creates the potential of legal consequences for anyone who challenges him 5) bribery and/or shared evil goals with the GOP, though for many this incentive fades over time when they realize they will never be more than a disposable hired hand. Many Republicans were lured by corrupt ambition, but they stay due to fear.

And lest you think this is a one-sided problem: https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-s...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#200

Post by ty6853 »

schroeding wrote: post #165
jesterson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are trying to veer the convo in another direction, but to address it - it's been 3 years, hundreds of thousands died, and absolutely nothing achieved. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If France had hold out until 1943, with the Wehrmacht only making a few hundred yards progress per day, it would have been a massive success, don't you agree? Without western help, Ukraine would have had no chance in hell to survive that long. It's the same logic the US applied to lend-lease, didn't they? There was a good chance of the USSR collapsing until 1943, and you still helped them. Delaying an invading attack…

Someone was coming to bail out France. I don't see a D day for Ukraine. If it is coming a European nation needs to step up right fuckin now and say it.

If they lost (or break even, or occasionally even gain) a few hundred feet a day, forever, all the while their young males all go into a meat shredder that is their choice to make. I'd rather let American families use their earnings on their own problems and let Ukraine make those choices for themselves.

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