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You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

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Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#191

Post by bornfreddy »

duxup wrote: post #79

I've run into a few engineers, very capable people and I'd be happy to work with them, but their experience was limited to very structured environments. It sounded like they were in well organized organizations. One in particular worked for a sort of "side ways competitor". They were horrified to hear about my deploying a fix all by myself, no review, for a legacy product that really didn't have a good testing enviro…

It's not one or the other though - a bit of safeguards here and there would make you even more productive, imho. Code reviews are indispensable for sharing knowledge within a team, automated deployments help deliver the system reliably and without unplanned downtime, and tests... People start appreciating tests when the red lights warn them about breakages in some completely unrelated places that they didn't even think were affected by what they did. And I'm not talking about 100% coverage - even covering just some of the trickier, but important flows helps immensely.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#193

Post by Capricorn2481 »

kerkeslager wrote: post #108
thecleaner wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it also builds self-esteem. Well crafted dig.

Sure, but if there's anything I've learned from working on legacy software, it's that I don't know why the code was written the way it was. I'm not the only smart person to work on a codebase, and it's more common that another smart person did what they did for a reason, than that I'm a genius who knows better than they did.

Such a rare opinion on HN unfortunately. But you're correct.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#194

Post by dakiol »

powerhugs wrote: post #45
tobr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven’t you also often made a moat between yourself and doing literally anything else more interesting at the company?

Engineering isn't about working on the most interesting problems. It's about getting stuff done and management happy. Here, parent explained in detail how to get stuff done, management very happy and secure their position for years to come.

I wouldn't say that's the conclusion. If there's only one true thing about work is: management doesn't care about you. They can fire you for any reason, and thinking that by working on stuff nobody else wants to work on you are "safe", it's an illusion.

If any the conclusion is: work on what you want, life is short.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#195

Post by kaffekaka »

samus wrote: post #153
kerkeslager wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if there's anything I've learned from working on legacy software, it's that I don't know why the code was written the way it was. I'm not the only smart person to work on a codebase, and it's more common that another smart person did what they did for a reason, than that I'm a genius who knows better than they did.

Sometimes there were reasons, but they were not necessarily good ones. Like these: - time pressure, leading to just making it work and not caring about edge cases, which were bolted on later. Or maybe never at all. And naturally, there is no useful testsuite. - the prototype ended up in production - a refactoring happened, but there was no follow-up into other areas of the code base - features changed, but the code i…

All of these, I have been guilty of. Fairly recently, too.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#196

Post by indymike »

tobr wrote: post #32
joezydeco wrote: post #20

As an embedded engineer in a new position I always volunteer to take up an old crusty legacy product that nobody else wants to touch. It's a quick education into how the company approaches projects and all the ghosts they had to fight along the way. All the business logic is there, and sometimes it's even documented. And once you have a semblance of knowledge about how the thing works and how to make fixes, you've bu…

Haven’t you also often made a moat between yourself and doing literally anything else more interesting at the company?

> Haven’t you also often made a moat between yourself and doing literally anything else more interesting at the company

Nope, assuming that code works and handles UTF8 (sorry, but there is a point where it is too far gone to save). You’ve made yourself essential. You know the business better. You are strategic. And often, you become the one person who knows the legacy code base. And you will quickly find yourself a part of super important decisions. You’ll be called out regularly for fixing things that have gone unfixed for years. You’ll also drive value by helping the company avoid spending vast amounts of money re-implementing functioning code. On top of that, new product is often a mix of new and old, so you’ll quickly find yourself in the middle of new product teams.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#197

Post by InsideOutSanta »

Counterpoint: You're not a senior engineer until a project you've started has become a legacy project.

Nothing better than somebody exclaiming, "what the hell were they thinking when they did this 20 years ago!" and the "they" is you.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#198

Post by marcinzm »

foobarchu wrote: post #181
marcinzm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of younger developers like to come into a new project and slap on the latest frameworks or coding practices that they've picked up recently, without acknowledging that breaking the standards of the project lead to higher mental load to maintain that code over the long term. Using the latest framework improves their future job prospects. Whatever company they work for will lay them off in a split second and wo…

Personal pride? I flat out don't respect a developer who refuses to do anything right because of nebulous hatred of any and all employers. No they don't care about you, no that isn't a good reason to go full apathetic.

It's not hatred. It's self-interest. The very heart of capitalism. A rational response to incentive structures.

You're the one sacrificing your own self-interest for pride and are upset that others refuse to do so.

edit: And I get it, I don't optimize my own career like this, focusing more on what I enjoy to work on at the moment. But I don't begrudge people who do optimize nor do I claim to be better than them. If anything they are acting in a much more rational and organized way to their goals than I am.

Re: You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a legacy project (2023)

#200

Post by belval »

Might be true, but as someone who worked on a few legacy projects, the opposite, i.e. "You're not a senior engineer until you've worked on a greenfield project" is also true. There are skills that you won't pickup by working on old piles of code. Knowing what technology to pick, how to design your system for high-availability and how to avoid needless complexity are just as important to a well-rounded senior.

Perhaps in the end you are not a senior engineer until you've done a bit of everything.

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