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To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

myteslaexperience.com

191–200 of 593 posts

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a good (?) video on the subject the other day, it was mainly about Volkswagen / VAG but highlighted the software problem. Cars are / were basically Frankenstein monsters under the hood, with dozens of onboard computers / chips all needing to work independently yet collaboratively and talk to each other. VW set up a new subsidiary and hired 3000 people to build the car software system of the future, reducing…

I'm afraid a lot of the tech is either necessary by law or necessary to get a decent safety rating these days, so you can't make the simple cars from yesteryear. Now, screens aren't required by law or safety ratings, but there's no getting around having a lot of software in there, and thus a screen to configure all that stuff.

Reversing cameras are required by law and they need a screen.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BMW G20 3-series before and after the facelift[1] perfectly exemplifies this issue. [1]: https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/bmw-3-ser... EDIT: top is after, bottom is before.

I'd take the bottom picture any day. Is that the newer or older one? Although the LED strips are stupid. The top pic I saw in the showroom and I really didn't like it.

In the name of $DEITY: WHY? I would pick without thinking the car without the child tablet attached to it, too. We will be forced to switch to this kind of stupid cars by regulation, or planned obsolescence, not by choice.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>(XC40 T8 EV). Such model doesn't exist. Do you mean XC60? And if so then it's not an EV, it's a PHEV. Anyway, Volvo made a collosal mistake of going with the Android Automotive operating system. It looks good but it's genuienly a pile of steaming crap. When Volvo had Sensus(their own OS) yeah it wasn't pretty but it was stable and it worked day in day out. I have a 2020 XC60 T8 with sensus and I literally have had…

I disagree with that. I really like the Android infotainment system because 1) voice control actually works and 2) built in Google maps is all I want in a car and they work very well. As far as I can tell the issues they have had is with their poor software engineering team and picking extremely mediocre hardware that is too slow to run it.

>>1) voice control actually works

English is not my native language so I'm yet to find a car where this works. But it's not a problem with the car, it's Google's voice assistant being useless for anything other than English sounding names. I can say "Google call Janusz Zawadiadzki" and there's exactly 0% chance it will work. It just can't do it. Don't get me started on it trying to read texts that aren't written in English when the system language is set to English, it's hilarious.

>> picking extremely mediocre hardware that is too slow to run it.

It freezing and losing sound and generally being in all kinds of non-operational state isn't due to the hardware being slow, it just doesn't pass muster for automotive-grade software which should never exhibit any of these behaviours no matter what.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#194
post #76

I stoped reading when the writer admitted, that he bought a Tesla in a country without official dealership. Common sense tells me not to do this. That’s the situation when EU consumer laws start failing. That’s very brave, but not clever move at all!!! Having service center 300 miles away is too far. It’s not lot of statistics, but I know cases where guys needed replacement parts before new other brand car reached 50…

> That’s the situation when EU consumer laws start failing That is not true at all. You have EXACTLY the same protections no matter where you purchase from in the EU, and there is a lot of assistance set up specifically to help handling cross-border issues. I do agree that the distance is definitely an issue for service though - its exactly why I haven't purchased a tesla

In theory same EU consumer protection everywhere. In the reality one needs layers in seller’s and buyer’s countries. Then the law can be exercised for many thousands euros.

Edit: had this situation in 2024. BMW sold a faulty car with international warranty. When the buyer found broken rear differential BMW offered to cover 3% repair cost. So the question was to sue BMW or pay 4000€ for by warranty covered repair out of own pocket.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#195
post #77

We need the EV revolution to save the climate but we were also promised that EVs would have less defects and be more maintainable than traditional ICE cars. But it turns out Teslas and Chinese EVs are among the worst performing in the mandatory periodic inspections in many European countries. This is not because of some anti-US/China bias in European car inspections because Ford (US) and Volvo (China) are doing well.…

>Ford (US) and Volvo (China) Isn't Volvo Swedish?

Volvo Cars are owned by Geely, a Chinese company. The Volvo Group (which shares branding and names with Volvo Cars) is public, but Geely also has a fairly substantial percentage. Volvo Group makes HGVs, buses, military vehicles amongst others.

The situation is not dissimilar to Rolls-Royce plc (publicly-owned, mostly British; makes jet engines and other high-performance turbines) versus Rolls-Royce Motor Cars (owned entirely by BMW; makes cars only, and use BMW engines).

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#196

The safest bet in EVs is to buy one from the Korean manufacturers - they have the tech figured out (and have had it for a few years), they make everything from 'car but electric' to 'Jetsons spaceship', they're reasonably priced, they have cheap and abundant parts, have mechanics who know how to work on them, and they don't have an 'X' factor CEO.

> The safest bet in EVs is to buy one from the Korean manufacturers - they have the tech figured out (and have had it for a few years) Not an EV, but I have a 2022 Kia Sorento with a fair number of weird software bugs-e.g. the sound from the navigation system randomly stops working and I have to restart the car to make it work again; the car tries to read speed limit signs using machine vision but its capabilities ar…

I'm driving a 2022 Kia Niro EV. Yes, the sign detection is pretty unreliable, but otherwise I've had no (software) issues with the car yet.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#197
post #72

I'm sorry to have to say this, but buying a Tesla in 2024 is a terrible choice - the car is horrible to drive, not to mention customer satisfaction, reliability and ethical concerns. Hyundai and Polestar are way better electric options that are actually enjoyable and comfortable to drive

No, it is objectively not "horrible" to drive, the Model Y was the world's best selling car two years in a row for a reason. But OP has clearly received a lemon, and Tesla service has a well-deserved reputation for being extremely slow when they need to fix any non-trivial issue. And in the OP's case buying the car in a country with no official Tesla presence is making things even worse.

> Model Y was the world's best selling car two years in a row for a reason.

I have no idea how it drives, and I am pretty sure the answer is not "horrible", but the sale numbers of a car that is ordered mostly online without test drives doesn't mean anything.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#198
If you find yourself in a situation like this in the EU, where consumer protection is strong, you should talk to the consumer rights office in the country where you bought the item, or where you were when signing the sale contract.

First, they will tell you how to complain to the company - what specific terms to use, and how long they have to respond and to resolve your matter.

Second, if you don't get a proper resolution, they will advise you how to sue the seller. You will usually have law on your side by that point, so there is almost no way the seller can weasel out.

Third, the consumer rights office you talk to might have contacts for expert investigators who can act as a third party in your court case. They will provide a written statement to the effect of "this is what happened, this is the law, the buyer can demand this remedy".

Finally, the seller will likely settle out of court, because you're not the first customer they abused and they already know how these things go. In the EU, you will often get either a replacement of the item, or a full refund, or sometimes you might get to choose. That is the bare minimum, you can also demand that they pay your court costs in most EU countries, and some compensation for loss of income, cancelled holidays, and other such things. Depending on how strong your negotiating position is, you will get some of these things.

If you have a website about how bad the product is and you are willing to take it down or write about reaching a satisfactory conclusion after negotiations with the seller, your negotiating position is very strong.

The consumer rights office will tell you all this process and it will vary a little bit. But it's important to do this relatively without delay, there is no point in dealing with unresponsive customer service. You need to tell them the right things by law and they will be forced to respond or to face the lawsuit. An abusive company will not respond out of good will, without compelling them to, you are just wasting time.

In Holland, the consumer rights office is the ACM.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#199

I had similar experiences with a modern Volvo. (XC40 T8 EV). Modern cars seem to be absolutely terrible. It's like all those Single Page Applications on the web that are just downgrades over the classic Server-Side Rendered apps. Sure, you have more features, but at what cost? Reliability. I think the last generations of cars before the touch buttons and screens were the last "okay" generation. Somewhere in 2010s, al…

All software is like its makers full of attention-whoring. Its a nasty side-effect of the "identify with your work" ethics. Thus i propose a new job, the ux-castrator. His only job, is to traverse the software and excise out tumorous attention hogging growths and limitations based upon thee. Back to the chasm from which you came daemon, for the user needs not see you, know you, be aware of you and your works. You are…

It's usually a product-management failure that causes this. If you make your UX sufficiently invisible your department becomes invisible, and you get de-prioritized for promotion.

Management by metrics makes this worse, by forcing staff to game the metrics.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#200
I got a ton of hate last time I said it, primarily from comrade musk's simps but I'll say it again: a former boss of mine(also musk worshiper) bought the top of the range tesla model s. We were going out of the Hague(where the company was headquartered) and I was in his car. It was brand new, like it barely had 6000km on the clock. My first impression was "how the hell is my 10 year old mid-range BMW offering a wildly better ride and build quality than something that just got off the production line". Plastic squeaking, you could feel every pebble on the road in your spine. And this is the Netherlands we are talking here, and those are by far the best roads in Europe by a considerable margin - when you see a tiny crack in the asphalt anywhere, it sticks out like a sore thumb from the horizon. We had to stop and charge it, the charger got stuck, fob was working 60% of the time, it refused to start on several occasions - all in the span of a single 10km trip. "It will get fixed with a future update, musk knows what he's doing" was what my boss kept telling everyone. Mmyeah, no thanks, I'm fine with my BMW.
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