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Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

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Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#191

Post by beanjuiceII »

chris_wot wrote: post #66
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard lots of people say that, and you’re entitled to that opinion. But I have yet to hear a single coherent argument explaining why that’s the case. I’m open minded but so far all I’ve heard is Musk/Trump haters clanging the alarm that somehow they’re going to take over the government or ruin America or whatever. With no explanation and no facts to back it up.

The evidence is fairly smacking you in the face. Have you seen the number of Executive Orders that Trump has been signing? Many of which are almost certainly to be overturned?

its really not that many (yet) and even so its unlikely he will catch up to the top

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#192

Post by amazingamazing »

tomrod wrote: post #179
rayiner wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sincere question: are you and I using “democracy” to mean the same thing? What Trump is doing is a reversion to how the federal government was run after the founding and during the 18th century (what’s derisively called the “spoils system”). Trump campaigned with a bunch of people with specific ideas (RFK, Musk, Gabbard, etc.) and then when elected put those people in positions of authority. Here, taking an axe to th…

Typically, democratic means voting people in Congress in, then Congress votes and represents their constituents. There is a reason the President was not initially elected by the people. The spoils system and the current systems failings are precisely that foresight. When Congress is weak, the Executive is unchecked. Go read the Old Whig 4

Luckily a weak congress can be replaced. I see nothing that has happened so far personally that cannot be democratically corrected.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#193

Post by relaxing »

rayiner wrote: post #150
Trasmatta wrote: post #9

> On his personal Substack, he wrote an essay titled “Why I gave up a seven-figure salary to save America,” according to press reports, and described failed U.S. attorney general nominee Matt Gaetz, who withdrew from Congress amid allegations of sexual misconduct, as a “victim” of the deep state. The fact that nobody is stopping these people is the clearest evidence anyone needs that there's no such thing as "the dee…

Sincere question: are you and I using “democracy” to mean the same thing? What Trump is doing is a reversion to how the federal government was run after the founding and during the 18th century (what’s derisively called the “spoils system”). Trump campaigned with a bunch of people with specific ideas (RFK, Musk, Gabbard, etc.) and then when elected put those people in positions of authority. Here, taking an axe to th…

You’ve neglected any discussion of democracy beyond the executive branch.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#194

Post by beanjuiceII »

dailyplanet wrote: post #182
wtfwhateven wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are correct. It's ironic that they wave the American flag and claim to be patriots, and yet no one hates the American government more than the Trump MAGA cultists who wave the American flag the hardest. The cruelty is the point. Millions of federal workers who are decent and hard-working folks will lose their jobs. Millions of poor people in the Global South will die, but this is what they want because most of th…

[flagged]

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#195

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

pwg wrote: post #141
avalys wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think it is? What do you think is motivating Musk?

For USAID, the fact that USAID was investigating him: https://gizmodo.com/elon-musks-enemy-usaid-was-investigating... His attack on USAID was not "rooting out waste", it was to settle a personal vendetta against the agency.

This is silly. USAID was investigating the usage of Starlink in Ukraine, which by the way Musk provided completely free of charge at a time when no one else was doing anything for Ukraine.

DOGE found that USAID has actually spent taxpayer dollars to funding terrorists.

I have no idea how we try to connect these dots to be “personal”. USAID was a sham and it’s been exposed.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#196

Post by tomrod »

rdtsc wrote: post #121
ctrlp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Pretty much. Person asks "how did Americans allow this?". Someone responds and get downvoted and flagged to hell. Funny enough, that also models the reason why people are in shock? "How could this happen, all the posts, media, and polls I saw were predicting a Harris win? Was it the Russians? The aliens?". Yet here someone responding honestly, and they get downvoted to hell and disappear. Next cycle it will be the sa…

Oh please. Good faith requires facts, which this current administration does not use.

Or perhaps you'd be surprised to learn they aren't eating pets in Springfield?

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#198

Post by adamtaylor_13 »

chris_wot wrote: post #152
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, what does signing a lot of executive orders have to do with it? Historically-speaking American presidents are using more and more executive orders to push things through. That doesn’t inherently make them bad.

Because your democracy is being run by fiat, and many of those Executive Orders are batshit insane, or just plain illegal. And you seem to be OK with this.

Pretty sure not a single XO has been illegal. If you’d like to supply some proof I’d be more than happy to look at it.

I’d be curious which orders you personally find to be “batshit insane?”

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#199

Post by motorest »

rayiner wrote: post #172
GiorgioG wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've learned the hard way that many people in this country do NOT actually care about democracy. Our democracy has been eroding for decades. Congress collects paychecks while gridlocking progress, even on bipartisan issues that could help ordinary citizens. Super PACs and "campaign contributions" (aka bribes) ensure the wealthy control both parties. Democrats and Republicans both spend recklessly and divide the nat…

Except the real issues are immigration and globalization. The NYT did a couple of great podcasts about both issues: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/electi... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/03/magazine/nafta-tarriffs-e... A majority of Americans have never supported either policy, but the credentialed elites in both parties have done so for decades. And both things have been accomplished largely…

> Except the real issues are immigration and globalization.

The US is a country of immigrants, and has been so since it's inception.

H1Bs are not about limiting immigration at all. They are about having a workforce without basic rights and bestow corporations with the power of uprooting an employee's life and banishing them from the land if he even dares stepping out of line.

The axes hanging over the regular folk's head, such as corporate control over access to healthcare, is not enough to completely control the workforce. They still feel they need more control. That's why mechanisms like H1Bs exist, and why illegal immigrants are still widely employed and the ruling regime punishes workers but always protects the employers who insist in hiring them almost exclusively.

Re: Elon Musk's Demolition Crew

#200

Post by derangedHorse »

tomrod wrote: post #179
rayiner wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sincere question: are you and I using “democracy” to mean the same thing? What Trump is doing is a reversion to how the federal government was run after the founding and during the 18th century (what’s derisively called the “spoils system”). Trump campaigned with a bunch of people with specific ideas (RFK, Musk, Gabbard, etc.) and then when elected put those people in positions of authority. Here, taking an axe to th…

Typically, democratic means voting people in Congress in, then Congress votes and represents their constituents. There is a reason the President was not initially elected by the people. The spoils system and the current systems failings are precisely that foresight. When Congress is weak, the Executive is unchecked. Go read the Old Whig 4

> Typically, democratic means voting people in Congress in, then Congress votes and represents their constituents

That's still happening.

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