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What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

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Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#191

Post by colingauvin »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #178
colingauvin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they afford not to? Subtract public research funding from the economy. Go ahead - see what's left. I'll shortcut it real quick - we're all dead from lung cancer and leaded gasoline, so there's no one to do the calculation.

?? healthy people stay alive, sick people will die. Of course this is terrible but "we will all die without publically funded research" doesnt hold water. Again Im not in favour of the cuts I just cant understand how the USA continues to borrow/print money and it doesnt all come crashing down. I dont think even Trump is anti-medicine, just pro fiscal responsibility.

I can't tell if you're intentionally misunderstanding, or not. So I'll spell it out: public non-biased research is a public good.

Oil companies weren't going to publish research saying leaded gas was bad. Tobacco companies weren't going to publish research saying cigarettes were bad. Have fun being healthy when you inhale leaded gasoline every day.

Forget about things like, you know, the internet. Or any medicine.

BTW, private companies are not paying for basic biological research. Good luck making a drug when no one knows what target to drug. VC firms will park their money in the bank instead. The value from biotechs is already marginal - investment basically vanished when interest rates went above 4.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#192

Post by magicink81 »

throwfgtpwd234 wrote: post #150
electriclove wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been wrecked. This is an attempt at fixing it.

Wrecked how? Fixed how? Can you describe either or are you just saying words?

US scientific research funding is largely driven by nepotism and favoritism. Insiders know but don't talk too much about it. They have a few options: a) just quietly stay in the system trying their best to do good work b) join the gravy train through social climbing c) quietly leave and move on with their careers.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#193

Post by nevin7 »

ropable wrote: post #25
boc wrote: post #9

Watching the tech community waltz into DC and pretend that they know how all the levers of government work is pathetic. Are there inefficiencies? Sure. Are there places to improve? Of course. But pretending that they can understand the intricacies of literally decades of institutional knowledge and deep connections across the globe in the course of a single weekend is asinine. We need to do better. The US government…

What's the name for that principle/rule where someone blithely removes rules or regulations without any context for them being there in the first place? It's on the tip of my tounge. I feel like we're seeing that a lot in the US Federal govt at the moment.

neoliberalism

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#194

Post by jcgrillo »

aqueueaqueue wrote: post #67
joe_the_user wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I find strange is that the other wealthy and powerful stand for the destruction of things that gave the US a huge competitive advantage. The average person isn't hit immediately by the destruction of science. But a far-sighted person with some power should by self-interest not want this. And this, I think, points to the corruption of the entire political class in America with just being upshot.

Elon can live anywhere in the world. Very rich people are global citizens. They cannot be patriotic.

We allow them to live. Never forget how much we outnumber them by.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#195

Post by anonylizard »

Damogran6 wrote: post #40
lukev wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And (as a complete side note) it has all worked out very poorly for Twitter, as a revenue-generating platform. No reason to think it will be better when applied to the federal government.

Twitter wasn't purchased for it to make money, it was purchased to get Musk in the Whitehouse.

In that respect it is astonishingly successful by every measure. Musk got his global political shift and becoming co-president of the US for a causal $40 billion.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#196

Post by bamboozled »

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #12
dan_can_code wrote: post #3

The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.

I think the former is most likely. The people are largely unhappy with how things have been and it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term, so I don't think there will be a fire lit under enough of the population to rise up. If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.

If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.

It's mostly too late to do anything at that point. People won't even have money for ammo.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#197

Post by scarab92 »

amelius wrote: post #89
ggm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe some will move for lifestyle reasons, but the problem is the post war IPO landscape (post 1980s really) across biotech and ICT has made one stark barrier: USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. You have to be socially smart enough to see that a $100k salary and lifesty…

> USA is a place where you can go from $100k to $100m vesting if you are lucky. That very few do achieve this isn't the point: you cannot do it, in almost any other economy. That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

> That's a kind of lottery-mentality that Europe doesn't want to attract anyway.

Except that it’s the opposite of a lottery.

It’s almost entirely based on your skills and the decisions you make.

There are right-place right-time effects, but it’s still your decision to be in the right place for the current time.

Europe’s economy is badly lagging the US economy, and it’s because culturally they hold these types of incorrect, fatalistic, zero-sum views towards success and innovation.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#198

Post by anonylizard »

robbiewxyz wrote: post #20
boc wrote: post #9

Watching the tech community waltz into DC and pretend that they know how all the levers of government work is pathetic. Are there inefficiencies? Sure. Are there places to improve? Of course. But pretending that they can understand the intricacies of literally decades of institutional knowledge and deep connections across the globe in the course of a single weekend is asinine. We need to do better. The US government…

Small nit, but these folks 100% can not be described as the "tech community". They're owners of big tech monopolies, their VC backers, and our new oligarchs. Tech community, however, they are not.

DOGE is staffed precisely by the tech elite. Like 20 year old grads who are elite programmers winning competitions, that type.

Are they not part of the tech community now? You highly overestimate the political homogeneity of the tech community, because opposing voices were previously so shut down. You would be surprised by what your co-workers are thinking deep down.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#199

Post by throwfgtpwd234 »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #178
colingauvin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they afford not to? Subtract public research funding from the economy. Go ahead - see what's left. I'll shortcut it real quick - we're all dead from lung cancer and leaded gasoline, so there's no one to do the calculation.

?? healthy people stay alive, sick people will die. Of course this is terrible but "we will all die without publically funded research" doesnt hold water. Again Im not in favour of the cuts I just cant understand how the USA continues to borrow/print money and it doesnt all come crashing down. I dont think even Trump is anti-medicine, just pro fiscal responsibility.

While the Unabomber, Luigi Mangione, and Communism may have correctly diagnosed socioeconomic pathologies their prescriptions were largely counterproductive. It is magical or superficial thinking to believe that aggressive chaos is somehow curative or better than following a more consultative and cooperative process like first assessing and auditing an organization thoroughly by eliciting input from all parties at all levels and gathering data before proposing recommendations, implementing those recommendations, and following up to adjust them.

Re: What's happening inside the NIH and NSF

#200

Post by bamboozled »

joe_the_user wrote: post #54
dan_can_code wrote: post #3

The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.

The thing I find strange is that the other wealthy and powerful stand for the destruction of things that gave the US a huge competitive advantage. The average person isn't hit immediately by the destruction of science. But a far-sighted person with some power should by self-interest not want this. And this, I think, points to the corruption of the entire political class in America with just being upshot.

Yeah, Elon is mostly wealthy because of the USA and what is gave him. The fact he wants to destroy it seems seriously self-destructive.
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