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Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

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Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#191

Post by EMIRELADERO »

bcantrill wrote: post #183
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started to dislike that quote somewhat. Why should we celebrate the fact that our society doesn't place moral pressure onto executives? Why should we find it acceptable that this is the status quo?

I am glad to see that many people are being correcting you, but just to put a sharp point on it: I am using that metaphor to condemn Ellison, not to condone or accept him. Unfortunately, since that talk in 2011, what was an aberration (albeit a broadly unspoken one) has since -- tragically -- become the norm. I refuse to accept this, however: I will continue to speak my truth about the moral decay in tech, and why we…

Welp. I'm officially sorry. I guess my indignation with the ethics status quo at the moment blindisded me and I read the quote in the wrong light/context.

Definitely gonna take a look at those videos too, thank you so much for everything!

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#192

Post by ryao »

lofenfew wrote: post #189
ryao wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a novel idea. Just pronounce ECMA as a 2 syllable word using classical Latin pronunciation. Ecma becomes just as catchy as Java when pronounced that way. For English speakers who do not know classical Latin, just read this: Eck-Ma-Script Here is Eck for those who do not know: https://youtu.be/cqsDlZAK104 As for Ma, it is the second half of mama. That is actually /ɛkmɑskɹɪpt/ rather than /ekmaskɹɪpt/, but it i…

I was under the impression that this was the pronounciation that sounded like a skin disease.

I miss rote ECMAScript as EMCAScript. ECMA does not sound like a skin disease to me. EMCA might though.

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#193

Post by phlosioneer »

On the fraud issue, while it's infuriating, I don't think you have standing to allege the actual issue.

The issue is statement 17 of your filing is factually incorrect, as Oracle details in their motion to dismiss. The form, without that specimen, is still valid; the most the court could do is to strike that image from the record and everything else would remain unchanged.

I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, you need standing to proceed with a claim. Standing here means that you were harmed or affected by the claim, and are seeking relief (i.e. asking the court to do/order something for you). The problem here, as Oracle points out, is that you were not harmed by the misrepresentation of the specimen. The USPTO was harmed by the misrepresentation, not you.

A way around this issue would be if the USPTO delegated its authority to bring-misrepresentation-concerns to any applicant willing to pay the court costs. You'd have to check if any law delegated that authority (for judicial action), or if there's a separate form, process, or procedure used to handle the delegation (outside of judicial action).

A similar example of this in action is EPA violations; for many cases, no individual has standing to bring the court action needed to address the harm being done. So the EPA was given that standing by law. Then the EPA delegates that authority as needed, or acts on its own.

I think you should drop this claim and continue with the others, and look into how USPTO handles immaterial but knowingly-false information. They probably have some mechanism, so that people don't just... throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#194

Post by bcantrill »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #191
bcantrill wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am glad to see that many people are being correcting you, but just to put a sharp point on it: I am using that metaphor to condemn Ellison, not to condone or accept him. Unfortunately, since that talk in 2011, what was an aberration (albeit a broadly unspoken one) has since -- tragically -- become the norm. I refuse to accept this, however: I will continue to speak my truth about the moral decay in tech, and why we…

Welp. I'm officially sorry. I guess my indignation with the ethics status quo at the moment blindisded me and I read the quote in the wrong light/context. Definitely gonna take a look at those videos too, thank you so much for everything!

Nothing to apologize for! Especially if you had only seen the quote, it's an entirely reasonable inference. And I am frankly embarrassed about how much mores in tech have shifted since 2011 -- and what would have been inferred as obvious decrying then is much less obvious now!

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#195

Post by Narretz »

_old_dude_ wrote: post #154

I'm sympathetic to the points being made but the argument that Oracle does not have its own JavaScript runtime does not hold. An OracleBD is able to execute triggers written in JavaScript since quite some time. see https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/multilingual-engine-execu...

I don't think the article outright claims Oracle has no JavaScript runtime, only that Oracle JET is no runtime, which is true. And since this is the evidence Oracle presented to keep the trademark, it's fair to point out that this is nonsense. But it's also true that if this goes to court, Oracle could present GraalJS (which is used in OracleDB) as evidence for their case.

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#196

Post by boblauer »

jongjong wrote: post #114

The legal system is fundamentally broken, globally. Last time I tried to start a legal action to claim damages against a big company for a very clear-cut case full of obvious fraud and deception (with plenty of evidence and many witnesses). I couldn't find a single lawyer willing to take my case for a share of the proceeds. The defendant was sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars in questionably-obtained cash and…

To answer your question, it's to give the appearance of fairness. It's the same reason Russia holds elections.

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#197

Post by elnr »

ryao wrote: post #188
stephen_g wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OR alternatively, just not coming up with a better alternative name that ECMAScript. If there was a catchier alternative name that was less awkward to pronounce, people might more happily have switched over.

Here is a novel idea. Just pronounce ECMA as a 2 syllable word using classical Latin pronunciation. Ecma becomes just as catchy as Java when pronounced that way. For English speakers who do not know classical Latin, just read this: Eck-Ma-Script Here is Eck for those who do not know: https://youtu.be/cqsDlZAK104 As for Ma, it is the second half of mama. That is actually /ɛkmɑskɹɪpt/ rather than /ekmaskɹɪpt/, but it i…

> Eck-Ma-Script

I thought this is how it was generally pronounced, it's at least what I say. (It still sounds like a skin disease though.) Is there some other more popular pronunciation?

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#198

Post by stephen_g »

ryao wrote: post #192
lofenfew wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that this was the pronounciation that sounded like a skin disease.

I miss rote ECMAScript as EMCAScript. ECMA does not sound like a skin disease to me. EMCA might though.

The pronunciation that I assumed (also suggested by other replies), eck-ma, sounds very close to how ‘eczema’ is pronounced in much of the world.

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#199

Post by seanclayton »

floydnoel wrote: post #48

I'm glad this is being fought, Oracle is a demon. > The major implementations of JavaScript are in the browsers built by Mozilla, Google, Apple, and Microsoft Isn't MS's browser just Chromium? Weird to add them to the list when they don't build a browser any more. Why not add Brave, etc?

MS implements JS with its typescript compiler

Re: Oracle justified its JavaScript trademark with Node.js–now it wants that ignored

#200

Post by gkbrk »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #80
userbinator wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which switches the backend from Chromium to Trident, effectively turning it into IE with a modern skin I wish they'd done the opposite instead: same UI, but with a better browser engine.

> better browser engine I'm confused. Are you saying Chromium or Trident browser engine is better? And, in 2025, is there a better engine than Chromium?

> And, in 2025, is there a better engine than Chromium?

WebKit and Gecko are way better

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