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The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

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Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#191

Post by ragnot »

Yeul wrote: post #105
jabl wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The aircraft carrier does have a role, but it is far behind the contact line. That's why they're called 'aircraft carriers'. The entire point of them is that the offensive firepower in the form of aircraft can reach out pretty far. They don't need to sail the carrier right up beside the enemy in order to hit him with their swords, you know. Jokes aside, there might (eventually, maybe not today?) be a point in what…

NATO exercises always ended with the nukes.

Hence the emphasis on cyber and (US) dollar attack vectors. War without the bullets.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#192

Post by themaninthedark »

poisonarena wrote: post #63
raverbashing wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Jones Act was supposed to help American shipbuilding Yes And this is what happens. Naive protectionism 101

chuckling to myself in my bed while reading this comment after working 12 hours on my oil tanker today. I am an OS in the SIU and i spend every night reading a little HN to motivate me to finish my software hobby projects so i can escape this hell

Good luck! My brother is a Merchant Mariner, I think he is a First Mate now...he gets way better pay than I do but the working hours sound terrible. The shit that you guys went through with COVID with the extended rotations was hell.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#193

Post by deltarholamda »

lesuorac wrote: post #38
pzo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Higher wages in theory should be linked in higher productivity and output per worker in the US due to deep skillsets I don't think this always have to be true, e.g. I'm polish and used work in uk and by crossing border to uk overnight I increased my salary 2-3x but that doesn't mean my productivity increased 2x. You want to google concept called "Dutch Disease", an economic phenomenon where a resource boom (like oi…

> You want to google concept called "Dutch Disease", an economic phenomenon where a resource boom (like oil) causes currency appreciation and decline in other sectors. Norway and the Netherlands faced this issue. Isn't this just the downside of comparative advantage? Like you have the classic example of island 1 can make 5 apples or 15 oranges and island 2 can make 15 apples or 5 oranges so island 1 makes 15 oranges…

>intentionally have an inefficient economy

Yes, but the economy should serve the people. The people do not serve the economy. Or at least that's the way it should work. Wall Street tends to disagree with this sentiment.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#194

Post by ethbr1 »

suraci wrote: post #96
davemp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even the most hawks Americans can only think about how to defend and A2/AD if the Chinese intervene in taiwan Works both ways.

i don't know which one is more crazier you don't know where taiwan is or you know it well but still think it's totally normal and reasonable to do that

The nine dash line is objectively and hilariously bad.

If China wants to seize territory internationally recognized as part of other countries... why lie about it so poorly?

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#196

Post by eunos »

mapt wrote: post #161
peepeepoopoo105 wrote: post #6

This will never succeed because the economies of scale are nonexistent without dominance in the commercial shipbuilding market. War planners should have pushed to repeal the Jones Act decades ago, but now Chinese shipbuilding capacity is over 230 times greater than ours because of their success in civilian shipbuilding. The proposed measures in this aricle are too little too late. The only logical course of action at…

Another alternative would be adopting South Korea and Japan into closer orbits the way we unconditionally support Israel. South Korea and Japan have strong commercial shipbuilding industries, which are just in the past few years going idle because China is subsidizing theirs more aggressively.

Good luck with that after Nippon Steel controversy

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#197

Post by Ekaros »

jabl wrote: post #120
suraci wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't know which one is more crazier you don't know where taiwan is or you know it well but still think it's totally normal and reasonable to do that

Perhaps Xi Jinping and his henchmen should also look at a map? In case they have trouble understanding, here's a hint: Taiwan belongs to that large part of the globe which is "not China".

Just like Panama and Greenland?

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#198

Post by ethbr1 »

snailmailstare wrote: post #80
__loam wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroyers are a lot bigger than aircraft. Big enough to carry equipment that can be used to defend themselves like SAMs and CIWS. You can also park a destroyer offshore and sit there, menacingly, without exposing the ship to AWACS and long range fighter patrols. Anti-ship missiles exist but Aegis is a lot more durable to that.

I think Russia still has most of its fleet because the US wasn't initially comfortable giving Ukraine the range that is typical?

Afaik, the US hasn't given Ukraine any latest-generation anti-ship missiles (cruise or ballistic).

Ukraine has sunk Russian shipping at dock with ALCM or at sea with their homegrown ASCM.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#199

Post by mainecoder »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #111
metalman wrote: post #37

Impossible.Beurocracy.Insurance.Unions.No demographic with the skills that must be learned early in life to do the work, hard ,dangerous work that requires trust and inate skills to acomplish quickly and safely. I aprenticed with some of the last marine smiths, and also worked(very briefly) in a shipyard building military frigates, and spent 95‰ of my life next to the salt water. Add to that my repeated attempts to c…

>labour (ha!) Where are you, and how much are you offering per hour?

you are assuming he isn't paying much but think you assumed that there are many people who can do the job that are unemployed when the reality is that most or almost all are either overworked due to under staffing and paid well or retired and it would be difficult to just pay those already working more to just bring them because they are working on an actual US Navy ship and can't be bothered.

Re: The U.S. needs a shipbuilding revolution

#200

Post by pas »

wrfrmers wrote: post #187
throw0101c wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not just politicians in general, but people, of course, are always surprised how expensive housing is, but then reject any kind of streamlined mass-manufactured option. You can build a tract of homes in 90 days (or less) using stick frame. They won't be fancy, but they'll be up to code (and with a little extra cost ( A crew of 4-5 guys (plus some subs) can build a custon home in 80 days: * https://www.youtube.com/w…

It's not just the cost of building the house. Utilities and infrastructure (and the taxes to pay for it all) add up. Now, if you were to build smaller, densely, and close enough to amenities that residents could walk or bike to their daily activities, or to public transit that can take you farther away, you save a significant amount on initial AND recurring costs. And what's better, people WANT that! Or, a least, the…

Market prices is not the problem. The problem is getting these bigger projects through permitting is. The cost savings are lost in litigation.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/market-rate-housing-will-make-...

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