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The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

kranga.notion.site

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Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#191

Post by joshstrange »

riffraff wrote: post #10

I loved the article and would probably have hired this person. But as a suggestion to them: if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it. Also reminded me of my compiler class, we had some homework to write a pascal/C transpiler and a friend of mine somehow managed to implement it via bison errors(?). The teacher was not happy but ha…

> But as a suggestion to them: if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it.

Yep, as an interviewer I hated when I’d try to gently (then not so gently) nudge a candidate in a direction because I could see they were going down the wrong path and they insisted they knew best or refused to listen to my advice. I’m not looking for “loyal foot soldiers” who follow my every order, and I’m not looking for people to kiss my butt or blow smoke up it, but the audacity to push back on an interviewer multiple times when they’re trying to help you… (NOT what I think happened in the OPs case, I’m thinking of my own experience here).

For me it was a massive red flag. If I can’t get you to listen to my advice in a scenario where most people are trying their hardest to be “attractive” to a company then what’s going to happen when I ask you to change something in a PR? Or tell you that the approach you are taking is not going to work?

That and the person who argued with me about tabs and spaces after I made a joke about it and then proceeded to email me with more sources as to why one was better than the other. Honestly, this person was younger and I don’t think they meant to be so abrasive, but it came across very “know-it-all” and one thing I don’t like is people who come into a company and start trying to change things or do things “their way” without first getting the lay of the land and understanding _why_ things were done the way they were (aka Chesterton's Fence).

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#192

Post by whstl »

hahn-kev wrote: post #37
riffraff wrote: post #10

I loved the article and would probably have hired this person. But as a suggestion to them: if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it. Also reminded me of my compiler class, we had some homework to write a pascal/C transpiler and a friend of mine somehow managed to implement it via bison errors(?). The teacher was not happy but ha…

Yeah I agree. You should be demonstrating how you would write code in the job. Based on devs I've worked with, I don't think a pure type solution as presented is very maintainable.

> You should be demonstrating how you would write code in the job

That was forbidden, check the rules given by the interviewer.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#193

Post by James_K »

z3t4 wrote: post #168

I think this might be a troll post, but here's my comment anyway. The reason why you didn't get this job is because they filtered out themselves, it was not you that was bad, it was them thinking you where too smart for them. It took a lot of time for me to figure out this, that in a relation you want someone that are on the same level. I used to think that companies want to hire the smartest people... But no, they w…

I don't think this has much to do with intelligence. Imagine you were an interviewer, and you had two candidates. One passes the test using a well put together orthodox solution, and the other does so using an unorthodox one. Which would you hire? I think we like to imagine we would prioritise the more creative of the two, but practically you may struggle to run a business where everyone has their own ideas about how to do things. If you are going to actually get stuff done, then I think you need a certain number of drones—people who follow orders reliably to produce predictable outcomes. If you don't want to be a drone, then you probably shouldn't apply for jobs given that drones account for the vast majority of employed people.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#194

Post by [deleted] »

rokkamokka wrote: post #82

Interestingly, unlike many in this thread I would've avoided hiring this person based only on the code example. This code is almost unreadable to me, certainly to most on my team. I would request changes it if it was a PR going into production (ignoring that the problem itself is made up). The code I would've liked to see would be easy to read, easy to follow, and would make me understand the underlying rules that ma…

[deleted]

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#195

Post by ben-schaaf »

What's the plan for the candidate choosing C when they hit rule 7 and simultaneously have to use strings but the `char` type is banned? How are they supposed to loop through the input array without an increment operation? Pointers are basically also numerical types, are those banned as well?

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#196

Post by megous »

qsort wrote: post #26
riffraff wrote: post #10

I loved the article and would probably have hired this person. But as a suggestion to them: if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it. Also reminded me of my compiler class, we had some homework to write a pascal/C transpiler and a friend of mine somehow managed to implement it via bison errors(?). The teacher was not happy but ha…

> if an interviewer says "I don't think that will be a good idea" just take the hint that it won't be what the expect and change it. I'd like to underline this just in case the author reads the thread. He really does seem great and I wish all the best to him, but reading between the lines is a useful skill regardless of this specific situation. He says he doesn't speak English well, that might have played a role in t…

If company is trying to hire people in other countries/cultures to save some buck, they should be mindful that communication may be a bit more of an issue, and try harder, too. Otherwise they'll have the same issue after hiring and not just during interviews.

It's not all up to the interviewee to decipher everything. Both should be trying a bit to get to the same understanding, prior to setting off to work.

Anyway, the company will be wasting money when the communication works out poorly, so it's ultimately up to them.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#197

Post by pinoy420 »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #195

What's the plan for the candidate choosing C when they hit rule 7 and simultaneously have to use strings but the `char` type is banned? How are they supposed to loop through the input array without an increment operation? Pointers are basically also numerical types, are those banned as well?

Cosmic rays and a lot of luck

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#198

Post by pinoy420 »

Dansvidania wrote: post #190

The interviewing company does seem like a dodged bullet at first glance, but: - the requirements being weird might very well be modeling how weird things often get in reality. Rules are often not recorded and not repeated, and very often they seem arbitrary from the POV of the developers. - the interviewers hinted that the direction was not what they were looking for - a senior dev needs to apply his own common sense…

Absolutely. This would be a no from me

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#199

Post by James_K »

mcherm wrote: post #88
rokkamokka wrote: post #82

Interestingly, unlike many in this thread I would've avoided hiring this person based only on the code example. This code is almost unreadable to me, certainly to most on my team. I would request changes it if it was a PR going into production (ignoring that the problem itself is made up). The code I would've liked to see would be easy to read, easy to follow, and would make me understand the underlying rules that ma…

If the requirements of the exercise had been "write FizzBuzz" then I would agree: doing weird tricks like this rather than writing straightforward code is a red flag. But the requirements were "write FizzBuzz in ANY language. Then change it so it doesn't use use numbers (!!!). Stick to strict and unreasonable code length constraints." The only POSSIBLE interpretation is that the interviewers don't WANT straightforwar…

Why is that your takeaway? The test isn't just "write a fizzbuzz", it's "write a fizzbuzz better than all the other candidates". Suppose one candidate produces straightforward readable code within those restrictions and the other doesn't, which would you hire? This guy chose deliberately to write an unreadable solution that is highly impractical against the advice of the interviewer.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#200

Post by James_K »

rho4 wrote: post #78

The 30-lines rule annoyed me the most. Don't force 'clever' solutions if you're looking for readability, maintainability, changeability, debuggability etc. On the other hand, our company doesn't do any technical interviews at all, so there's that.

As a programmer, your goal should always be to produce the most readable possible code. Just because you can't produce something perfect doesn't mean that you should give up on readability entirely.
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