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Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

linux.oracle.com

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Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#191

Post by wdaher »

rytis wrote: post #184
wdaher wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally with you on fear of lockin, but for what it's worth, this particular case is basically the opposite of lock-in. You can, at any time, switch away to CentOS, Scientific Linux, or Red Hat (if you're willing to write the check) and not have to totally reinvent your stack from scratch, since they're all binary-compatible.

I can only see centos2ol.sh on that page. Was looking really hard, but failed to notice ol2centos.sh anywhere... Oh, I need to write my own? Or will Oracle help me? For free?

'--reverse' is on my wishlist as well, and I want to see it implemented, if nothing else because it makes the whole situation less scary-looking.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#192

Post by wdaher »

keithpeter wrote: post #178
wdaher wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the release notes: "By default, both the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel and the Red Hat Compatible Kernel are installed on the x86_64 (64 bit) platform, and the system boots the Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel by default. If needed, /etc/grub.conf can be modifed to make the system boot with the Red Hat Compatible Kernel by default." https://oss.oracle.com/el6/docs/RELEASE-NOTES-GA-en.html

So for the avoidance of doubt, the CentOS upgrade script will preserve the RHEL/CentOS 2.6.32.x kernel, but a fresh install from the netboot or dvd will install the UEK 3.0 install?

Correct.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#193

Post by rdtsc »

wdaher wrote: post #139
debacle wrote: post #53

Oracle launches Oracle Linux -> People port over from CentOS -> CentOS community dies -> Oracle stops updating Oracle Linux for people without support contracts I'd call anyone claiming this strategy a looney if it weren't for the fact that the company doing this is Oracle and I'd put nothing below them as far as a business strategy.

The issue with that strategy is that it's totally untenable. As soon as Step 4 happens, someone else makes a new CentOS that everyone switches to. Fundamentally, there is a market need for something to fill the niche of CentOS. I happen to think that free-Oracle-Linux can be a better CentOS than CentOS, but if they were both to suddenly go away, something new would come to fill the obvious void.

> Fundamentally, there is a market need for something to fill the niche of CentOS.

You know what fills the niche of CentOS pretty well? CentOS. If CentOS goes away, you know what will fill its niche? -- Scientific Linux.

> I happen to think that free-Oracle-Linux can be a better CentOS than CentOS

I think Oracle (which is already not having a stellar reputation in the open source community) just worsened its position. People with money pay Redhat for support. People who don't want to pay, will use CentOS, and a large proportion of those don't like Oracle and out of principle will avoid it.

It seems after the litigation debacle, Oracle could have done something to improve its standing the programming community and maybe donated to CentOS, for example. That would have been nice. Instead they keep shooting themselves in foot.

Will this affect Oracle's bottom line. Perhaps not. Maybe in the longer future. But don't be surprised at the negative reaction from other programmers on HN or other tech sites.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#194

Post by davidw »

andrewcooke wrote: post #173
davidw wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most users of either one will likely not contribute anything at all back besides simply being part of the "network effects". I'm not a fan of Oracle either, but your rhetoric is in the red zone...

you're right i'm angry. i'm sorry if it offends you. but still, i don't see what you're argument is. are you saying that because i am angry and "rhetorical" it's ok to switch to oracle? is noticing that i am angry somehow going to make everything work out? when centos folds and oracle decide to "raise margins" me being angry will make centos come back? because if not, i would suggest worrying a little less about my e…

I don't use CentOS actually, I'm fairly happy with Ubuntu, and if I didn't use that, I'd go back to Debian.

For many years I was a Debian package maintainer, and Debian got by ok without much corporate support, despite the existence of Redhat.

In other words, your thinking is way too zero-sum. I think there's room for both. Perhaps the competition will make Redhat think about their model some too, improving things for everyone.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#196

Post by GlennS »

runjake wrote: post #83
wdaher wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trying to go for a "for linux nerds, by linux nerds" vibe, so I'm amused that your complaint is "This doesn't sound corporate enough". At the end of the day, my view here is that Oracle has actually produced something useful, but lots of people are blind to it, in no small part because of what ultimately boils down to zealotry (which doesn't seem like an awesome reason to me). Hence the point of trying to get t…

I think you did a good job with the vibe, although it was somewhat odd-feeling coming from an oracle.com site. It did make me double-check the URL bar with the "If you find yourself needing to buy support, have fun reinstalling your system with RHEL before anyone will talk to you". But is perfectly valid. The problem with Oracle Linux is that it's from Oracle. And I just don't trust them at all. I know I can revert b…

I agree, I didn't see anything wrong with the press release. The negative comments here are based on Oracle's long-term reputation. In the wake of the Sun acquisition, they've publicly mismanaged (Hudson) or outright destroyed (OpenSolaris) open-source communities.

I think it's going to take a lot of work for Oracle brand to gain any trust in the eyes of Linux nerds.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#197

Post by SwellJoe »

gaius wrote: post #195
SwellJoe wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle.

So, FUD then.

No, not FUD...not really. Solaris is a complicated tale.

The short explanation is that when Oracle acquired Sun, all of the hopes and dreams of Solaris users, particularly OpenSolaris users, were dashed. Many great technologies were pushed onto the back burner. All of Sun's Open Source portfolio saw a massive shake up and very little came out the other side healthier. Pre-acquisition, Solaris/OpenSolaris was a reasonable OS choice for new server deployments, particularly in cloud environments. Post-acquisition, you'd have to be a little bit nuts to deploy Solaris. Solaris has a lot of die-hard fans, with good reason...so this was a bitter pill to swallow for a lot of folks.

Oracle is simply ham-fisted when it comes to dealing with Open Source technologies that it comes into possession of. It's a really good example of a company that doesn't "get" Open Source. It's not limited to Solaris, Solaris is just one of the most popular, and the most difficult to replace for people who are relying on it.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#198

Post by 23david »

bcantrill wrote: post #141
wdaher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer: I had a hand in a lot of this) That's not quite the intent. Look, here's the deal: I know we all like to think that corporations are evil and the presence of corporate interests actually messes stuff up. But this really is one case where you want the oomph of bilion-dollar company making sure that you get your security updates in time. No one else is providing that. Oracle happens to be doing so, and we'…

Anyone decrying Oracle as "evil" is falling into a trap that I have warned about[1]: they are making the mistake of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison -- they are infusing Oracle with humanity that it does not in fact have. Oracle is, as another commenter put it, a corporate sociopath. The inability to empathize is fine for a monopolist (and indeed, it's a terrific asset -- and after five months of working there, I con…

You're awesome. I watched the full vid of that talk a month ago or so and it really hammered home what matters.

What we do as developers matters. Our time on this world is short enough already. What reason is there to spend years of our lives to further the aims of a company that doesn't share our goals and hopes, and in the end may be acting completely opposite to what we believe is fair and honest competition? What a waste...

Looking forward to seeing more and more of the OpenSolaris/SmartOS/Lumiere innovation spread to the rest of the community now that Oracle has caused everyone to jump ship. In some really cool technical ways SmartOS is really advanced, but the usability definitely needs work... things should improve as more people start hammering on it. Would be good to see more cooperation/coordination between SmartOS & Linux distros.

Re: Oracle launches "a better alternative to CentOS"

#200

Post by awakeasleep »

awakeasleep wrote: post #158
wdaher wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About half of this is accurate. We didn't discontinue support for CentOS; our legacy customers can continue to get access to Ksplice for all the distros we used to support. We did stop accepting new customers for anything other than Oracle Linux, though. The same source code that Ksplice made available at http://ksplice.com/software is also now currently at https://oss.oracle.com/ksplice/software/

As long as we're noticing how you guys sold out, I'd like to bring up the Ksplice blog. It used to have some really interesting stuff on there, but after the move to Oracle, the interesting posts disappeared. I'm talking specifically about 'Coffee shop internet access'. Man that was a cool post and it taught my brother and I a LOT. Then it disappeared, along with most mirrors of it. I was able to find one left, here:…

And with this they posted it. It seems like a time issue, not Oracle censoring a 'hacking' post. And now I feel a bit like a cynical doofus.

https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/coffee_shop_internet_...

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