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Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

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Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#191

Post by gehsty »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #89

An important reason that power is expensive in the UK is that it doesn't use zonal pricing and is effectively not giving the right price signals to consumers of power to move closer to where the cheap power is (e.g. data centers) or to conserve power when power is expensive; or producers of power to invest in power generation closer to where the power is scarce and expensive. Another point to make is that the nationa…

No expert but there is segmentation in terms of network costs to generators (tnuos), which come out of the CFD generators are awarded, so while bill payers have a single cost the utilities that generate their power do feel the effect of where they build their plant.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#192

Post by dfawcus »

gnrl wrote: post #29
jatin101 wrote: post #22

Commercial energy broker here - the only 2 'real' costs in your price are the wholesale and supplier costs. Choose suppliers that offer a fully-fixed electricity contract, so that made up variable costs such as distribution, network, etc are all factored into the unit rate that the supplier charges you for your contract. Avoid smart meters at all costs. Renewable / green contracts are always a lot more expensive than…

What's the reason to avoid smart meters?

Because they're designed for demand side load shedding.

Also to enable "surge pricing" such that folks ration of disconnect themselves, rather than pay the surge price.

Other than that, they don't really have a benefit for the user, the details one variable use could simply be monitored by manual reading on a weekly basis.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#194

Post by dfawcus »

KaiserPro wrote: post #131
oceanplexian wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The security is broken and it broadcasts your information in the clear. I set up a RTLSDR plugged into my laptop in my kitchen and was able to read the energy utilization of my entire neighborhood after about 10min of work.

> The security is broken and it broadcasts your information in the clear. I set up a RTLSDR plugged into my laptop in my kitchen and was able to read the energy utilization of my entire neighborhood after about 10min of work. In America, yes. Here the meter->gateway is encrypted zigbee, the gateway is over 3/4g. However the remote contactor is more of an issue. You can be turned off remotely without much ceremony.

Where does "here" mean.

In the UK only "central" England and south transmits data over the mobile network. In northern England and Scotland, the data is transmitted over UHF radio.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#195

Post by philjohn »

yumraj wrote: post #184

The rate shown is 29p which comes to 36 cents. It is substantially less than PG&E California prices, which average around 50-55 cents.

I'm in the UK and with solar and battery, and having an EV there are tariffs out there where the levellised cost you'll pay is approaching 7p per kWh.

Intelligent Octopus Go is one example - between 23:30 and 05:30 all of your electricity usage is 7p per kWh, for the entire house. For this, you give up controlling when your EV is charged as Octopus either control it through the car, or through a compatible charger. When your car is plugged in, they build a charging schedule when the grid is cheapest and greenest. You give them an "I need to add this % of charge and it to be done by this time tomorrow morning" and it just works it out. On days with a glut of renewable generation (i.e., it's very windy, or very sunny) you will get half hour slots at 7p during the day as well.

Now comes the solar and PV element - their "outgoing octopus" export scheme pays 15p per kWh, so in the summer you can build a nice credit buffer from exported excess energy, and then in the winter, charge the battery whenever the cheap rate is active and given a big "enough" battery, most of your usage will cost you 7p + 5-10% (efficiency losses from AC/DC/AC conversion).

The payback period for Solar + Battery, especially in the UK where we aren't saddled with high tariffs for panels, is coming down markedly. It used to be well in excess of a decade, but is between 5-10 years now.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#196

Post by philjohn »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #75
jstanley wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you need smart meters at the level of individual houses? Wouldn't putting them on substations get the same benefit with much less cost?

It eliminates the need for staff to manually read them and guarantees they are read correctly every month.

It also opens up more granular time-of-use tariffs than Economy 7.

Intelligent Octopus Go being one example.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#197

Post by philjohn »

jatin101 wrote: post #22

Commercial energy broker here - the only 2 'real' costs in your price are the wholesale and supplier costs. Choose suppliers that offer a fully-fixed electricity contract, so that made up variable costs such as distribution, network, etc are all factored into the unit rate that the supplier charges you for your contract. Avoid smart meters at all costs. Renewable / green contracts are always a lot more expensive than…

Sorry, but this feels entirely wrong.

If I didn't have a smart meter my levellised cost of energy wouldn't be negative like it is now (EV tariff + Solar + Battery).

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#198

Post by pxeger1 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #89

An important reason that power is expensive in the UK is that it doesn't use zonal pricing and is effectively not giving the right price signals to consumers of power to move closer to where the cheap power is (e.g. data centers) or to conserve power when power is expensive; or producers of power to invest in power generation closer to where the power is scarce and expensive. Another point to make is that the nationa…

FWIW, the government is in the middle of reviewing how the electricity market works, although it’s probably not going to be implemented until 2025+ https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/review-of-electric...

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#199

Post by philjohn »

vel0city wrote: post #36
jatin101 wrote: post #22

Commercial energy broker here - the only 2 'real' costs in your price are the wholesale and supplier costs. Choose suppliers that offer a fully-fixed electricity contract, so that made up variable costs such as distribution, network, etc are all factored into the unit rate that the supplier charges you for your contract. Avoid smart meters at all costs. Renewable / green contracts are always a lot more expensive than…

> Avoid smart meters at all costs I don't mind smart meters; it's nice getting the metrics and data from them. I do avoid variable rate billing though.

I'd look more into it - Octopus Agile can save you a heap of money, doubly so if you have Solar + Battery so can more effectively load balance.

And Intelligent Octopus Go is a variable rate - 7p 23:30-05:30 (and any time during the day your EV is plugged in and there's a glut of green cheap energy on the grid).

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#200

Post by yumraj »

Havoc wrote: post #189
yumraj wrote: post #184

The rate shown is 29p which comes to 36 cents. It is substantially less than PG&E California prices, which average around 50-55 cents.

Nobody is getting california salaries in rural UK though...

Fair point - I did not consider purchasing price parity.
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