Live data from Hacker News

Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

archaeologymag.com

191–200 of 310 posts

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#191
post #45

I find it pretty cool how the spread of Christianity can be tracked so finely that a 50 update in earliest arrival time is exciting! I started listening to a podcast called "the history of the early church" to learn a bit more about that but unfortunately I think the target audience was Christians interested in theology rather than nerds interested in history. Recommendations for books etc are welcome!

The Triumph of Christianity: How the Jesus Movement Became the World's Largest Religion - Rodney Stark

I also like Stark's God's Battalions, which is a nice debunking of the conventional view of the crusades.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a participant in a number of somewhat "modern" Christian traditions, I think one factor is that we have changed quite a lot and then some strands of the faith have decided to go back into the past and seek what we lost from the early days. One example being certain rock'n'roll churches where people stick their hands up in the air while singing and praying: I heard one pastor defend this as being "this is…

Thing is, Christianity is (should be? idk) based on the teachings of Jesus which separated from Judaism; on prayer and worship, the New Testament has teachings like: > Matthew 6:5-14 > 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go in…

> Then there's Catholics where opulence and grandeur is apparent in their cathedrals, and while I can appreciate them for their architecture and atmosphere and the like, I don't think that's in line with Jesus' teachings of humility and helping the poor etc,

I think it depends on the motivation. If it is to elevate people's minds it is fine, if it is to show wealth and power it is not.

> especially not given how much money goes and went around in the church.

The church does actually use a lot of its income for the poor. It mostly does this in third world countries so its not evident in rich countries. Its not that long ago (20 or 30 years) that the church was the largest operator of AIDS clinics in the world - mostly in Africa where the need was great but the money was lacking. The same is true of other large Christian churches. They also tend to follow the rules of doing good quietly so they do not do PR to let everyone know what they are doing like secular philanthropists.

Its something you can verify. Some bits of the Catholic church (I recall finding a Vatican statement of income and expenditure a while back) make accounts public, and I think many other churches must do too.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#193
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is scientific consensus that Jesus was a historical figure, so the book referred here is probably fiction.

One of the more interesting pieces of evidence in the Bible. The Roman census that required every family go back to their hometown did not happen (why would it?). Romans kept very good records of censuses and such an event would be well covered. So why does the Bible have this story? The best guess is that Jesus was well known to have come from Nazareth. Yet the older messianic texts say the Messiah would be from Bet…

Just to be clear: there is no evidence of anything in the Bible. It's a collection of stories, opinions, lessons and prophecies.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#194

The article mentions "18-line Latin text" but I was unable to recognize any word on the scroll (took Latin in high school) even something obvious like deus . Was this some sort of Latin shorthand?

I can spot some of the shorthand. I see "Xp" a few times, which is actually imported from the Greek christos, abbreviated to chi-rho.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#196

> dates back to approximately 230-270 CE The nerve to use "Common Era" when specifically talking about the spread of christianity.

I can't even begin to tell you how hard I unexpectedly laughed at your comment denoting a perceived lack of respect using an extremely commonly accepted scientific dating measurement. Nothing negative noted about any other piece, just a single cherry picked highlight to allow you to demonstrate socially acceptable puritan outrage when given the chance, even on something as insignificant as following common scientific processes. Very culturally relevant. Thanks for the entertainment!

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#197
post #194

The article mentions "18-line Latin text" but I was unable to recognize any word on the scroll (took Latin in high school) even something obvious like deus . Was this some sort of Latin shorthand?

I can spot some of the shorthand. I see "Xp" a few times, which is actually imported from the Greek christos, abbreviated to chi-rho.

Also, each ΧΡ (Chi Rho) is preceded by another Christogram that sort of looks like IHS but I'm not sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christogram

Edit: Actually, here's the full transcription in Latin and German: https://archaeologisches-museum-frankfurt.de/index.php/de/?v...

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a taxonomy of religious belief the communion of saints is much closer to ancestor veneration than it is polytheism. If you're going to see anything in christianity as potentially polytheistic it's the triune god come on.

I think, in a technical sense, you're right. But the difference between ancestor veneration (especially semi-legendary ancestor veneration) and veneration of a pantheon of lower-tier dieties is practically nonexistent. Its a distinction without difference. Nobody hesitates to call Shintoism polytheistic, and its core practices, to an outsider, seem strikingly similar to how a Christian, especially a Roman Catholic, i…

I don't disagree really. I do think there are in-this-context significant differences between how individual saints are interacted with. A personal or family patron saint tends much more towards looking like ancestor veneration, compared to eg mary who in practice takes a role that would in other religions be filled by a deity of femininity/motherhood/nurturing/etc.

But overall in any case I think it's sometimes valuable to think of christianity this way and sometimes not. It is a syncretic religion so of course it has regional variations and contradictory remnants of absorbed practices. IIRC some of the specific saint traditions, like icons in the home, predate christianity in the mediterranean.

But on the other hand there are practices and relationships common in true polytheistic religions that you don't see in christianity at all. If taking the saints as minor deities, you don't find sects exalting one of them exclusively, nor do you see individual christians "defect" from one saint to another for personal advantage. There's no theology of competition or opposition between the saints to base such practices on at all. So there are limits to the usefulness of this perspective too.

The shintoism example is interesting, I'll need to look more into it. I had considered it polytheistic but now that I think about it I haven't read shinto writings on the subject so I don't know if most shinto practitioners experience it that way. Outside perspectives aren't completely invalid of course but they aren't as interesting to me as how believers experience their own religions.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the fact that Christians from Western Europe looted Constantinople in 1200 play a role in the Eastern Roman Empire's decision to stop identifying themselves as part of the Catholic Church, or were there already deep theological and political divides?

The pope who sent the schism message delegation died before it reached Constantinople. And the patriarch of Constantinople at the time, also died before his reply made it back to Rome.

What a terrible century for texting.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#200
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of these “gnostic” interpretations tbh. When you read stuff like Numbers 14, God just comes off as a total asshole lol Although the whole theology they cooked up around the “true god” reads like bad fan fiction usually.

> "the nature of the triune Godhead" Yeah that sounds like some weak Warhammer 40k fanfic.

I've always seen Warhammer fiction as part parody of religions.. and heavy metal art.
Post reply on HN