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London's 850-year-old food markets to close

bbc.co.uk

191–200 of 300 posts

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, startups should have absurd mission statements, while managers of the city of London should be more sober.

A sober Englishman? Is there such a thing?

Bit unfair. Plenty of sober Englishman. During the week, anyway. Well, Monday to Thursday. Before midday, at least.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#194

The Corporation of London own the land Billingsgate is on. They've been looking to redevelop this for over a decade since the land's value is now magnitudes more than when it was built because of Canary Wharf and the new Canary Wharf Crossrail station. It's prime real estate land, possibly the best plot in London right now. And so is Smithfield, or at least the land that Museum of London is on, and they're moving to…

> Some things need preserving.

Mostly because modern cities only allow the most boring, safe things to be built. Less people would be whining if it was possible to build a thriving market like this elsewhere in the city, where it still makes economic sense. But there's probably a billion rules and therefore capital/political requirements where it's impossible. So the only contenders will be a bigco shopping market on the bottom floor of a condo building.

Open, chaotic markets with multiple small vendors is too risky (and too much fun) for modern top-down urban planners... so people see the only solution is to cling on to the dwindling past when that was still possible.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that these are not culturally significant institutions and most people in London don’t care. Ordinary Londoners rarely use these markets, and they mostly sell to restaurants, and require major financial support. Not everything from the past is good. We don’t still run coal power plants in London just to get that historic smog. They were already planning to move both markets way out of central London (t…

> The reality is that these are not culturally significant institutions and most people in London don’t care. Ordinary Londoners rarely use these markets, and they mostly sell to restaurants […] Just because most Londoners don't care doesn't make them unimportant. They can provide a useful 'infrastructure' role for allowing this specific sector to run more smoothly. There's a similar thing in Toronto, the Ontario Foo…

https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2007/10/inside_the_ontario_...

> The whole operation is overseen by the Ontario Food Terminal Board.. $8 million of expenses... with a revenue rate exceeding that by $1 million, the operation is profitable, self-sustaining and receives no government support or preferential treatment despite its status as an agency of the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs.. Some of those that operate here are among the wealthiest families in Canada.. The thirty-year leases held by the most powerful grocers in the city are renewable in perpetuity, privileging a small number of family-owned businesses that have kept a tight hold on their terminal rights for over three generations. The business is so robust, and the leases are so sought after, that each one is estimated to be worth over a million dollars in annual economic returns.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#196
I walk past/through Smithfields regularly. It's... nice? Ok it's not nice, it' uniquely London but it's just a pretty run down area in the middle of much nicer areas. But the plan was never to keep it, the plan was to knock it down and tell the people who had been working there to go work in Dagenham. So in my view this is no difference. That area of London just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a meat market anymore, and while you can preserve the buildings you can't preserve a set of businesses that look sillier and sillier by the day. At some point you have to ask what you're actually preserving, because "Smithfields Market (rebuilt in Dagenham in 2025)" isn't really that historical.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#198
post #56
post #24

Statement from the City of London Corporation which is closing them down: > Chris Hayward, policy chairman of the City of London Corporation, said the > decision represented a "positive new chapter" for the markets as it "empowers > traders to build a sustainable future in premises that align with their > long-term business goals". This is a great statement. Like firing people to free them up to find jobs that better…

Christ, yeah - I came here to post the same quote. What kind of horrific shit does one need to go through in life to become capable of uttering that kind of horseshit with a straight face?

I mean, other countries would kill to preserve such long-lasting heritage, especially one that's in active use and very much a part of the city.

But the English of late are exceptionally good at bending over and showing their rear-ends to new foreign overlords for paltry sums of coin.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#199
post #82

This is why I'm distrustful towards any initiatives aiming to make a city "more liveable for humans". First they entice you with a vision of a place where everything is within walking distance, then they do this.

This isn't the type of market you pop down to and buy your weekly shop, this is wholesale. It's largely where restaurants will go to to buy their meat for the day/week. Smithfields opens at midnight and closes at 7am. You can walk past at mid-day and it's just a fairly run-down part of london in the middle of other much nicer parts of London. This is nothing to do with walkable cities.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#200
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that almost no one makes any good money in the food industry. For a lot of people in that industry, if they tried to find jobs that better aligned with their skills (except in food), they'd likely be better off. A lot of people take jobs in terrible places and get complacent, maybe far too complacent. A healthy economy is one where money, people, skills, and intellectual property has high velocity , me…

> A healthy economy is one where money, people, skills, and intellectual property has high velocity, meaning people quickly reorient their productive capacity to where it's most useful. Everyone is an interchangeable cog! > Serves them right for Brexit! Brexit wasn’t a unanimous vote. There are people suffering under the Brexit decision that couldn’t vote at the time.

Our horror to the capitalist economic calculus of this world does absolutly nothing to make the world less ruthlessly capitalistic. In fact, we've seen that all attempts to overthrow capitalism (i.e. communism or SJW liberal wokism) have done nothing but entrench and strengthen capitalism and indeed, strengthen its uniquely worst parts of it.

You should look into Mark Fischer as an example of someone who tried to see just how evil it is in its full glory. Look at what happened to him afterwards. That's what happens when you think about it too much.

Unironically, swim with the fish or you'll get eaten by the sharks.

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