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Rails is better low code than low code

radanskoric.com

191–200 of 249 posts

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#191
post #6

I don’t want to build in a language without types, but low code is even less types than Rails. I’ve just never worked on a public app that was simple enough for Rails to feel good - Airbnb was rails but by the time I got there it was very much not simple. Internal tools in rails though, that is okay.

Ruby has types.

In runtime. Basically you lose most of the benefits.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those scripts work, until they don't and the people who generated them cannot even ask the right questions to an LLM, and people who can actually maintain them get overwhelmed by the side-quests of keeping them in order, because everything that gets some use become a dependency for the business.

So we're not losing our jobs?

Maybe long term we will lose our jobs but medium term there will be huge demand for people who can clean up the mess which was created by people who used AI to generate code without understanding what they did.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#193
post #75

Or, you could use Elixir/Phoenix, which has Flame. *hint hint*

I've done a lot in Rails and a bit in Elixir/Phoenix. I haven't dipped my toes into Flame yet, although I did like the presentation.

Have you used or seen it used successfully?

Just to learn from, not to knock it down.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#194
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruby has types.

In runtime. Basically you lose most of the benefits.

Before lightly using this argument I recommend using a language that really doesn't have types. The difference between getting your errors at runtime / compile time is much much smaller than the difference between those and not getting errors at all.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's very bad they broke the exists() behaviour in a point release by changing the return value from a boolean to an integer. But I think strong typing is not the answer. It's a drag on productivity and I can think of several other ways they could have broken the user space API that would not have been picked up by strong typing. You really need good test coverage, and ruby/rails makes that easy. If you…

I totally disagree. I think not having static types is a drag on productivity and maintainability. I have to work with both Kotlin and Ruby codebases, and the Ruby ones are always a nightmare whenever you need to make a change deep within the application's core, even though the Ruby one has more extensive tests. The idea that test coverage is a replacement for static types is nonsensical. I won't insult your intellig…

Good tests do indeed not test the detailed shape of inputs and outputs, they test the system end to end. And they should be cheap to run, so you run them after every change. As soon as someone mistypes jobId the test will break and you will know where to look. If that would slip through then your tests simply aren't good enough.

And because tests do not test the detailed shape of inputs and output it becomes easier to try out a quick refactor of your code later, without having to change a zillion signatures just to experiment a little. Agility matters.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#196
post #8

It would be nice to get a brief definition of "low code." Otherwise great article. I've found myself using "low code" frameworks when they setup my environment for me and can generate the code files. Key example was a Minecraft mod maker. Within a minute I was fed up with the scratch style programming, but it had all the Java build stuff ready for me to just edit the files myself. No setting up gradle or anything.

I think the hallmark of a low code solution is that you don't have to worry about build systems, project setup or deployment. Those barriers hinder software engineers and laymen alike.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#198
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right software, wrong company. Tensing appears to be a FME reseller and consultant. https://www.safe.com is the company that makes FME. While they started in the GIS world, and this is very much where their roots and core user base is, they've expanded greatly over the past few years into becoming a more general automation, data processing and ETL tool.

Ah, cool. Thanks. This must be for serious industry w/ deep pockets. There's not even a sign up link for individuals.

Yea, sadly they've gone full enterprise over the past few years. Once upon a time they were a small scrappy software company with both a price list and order form right on their website as well as a free Home license which let you use FME for 'play' and training at home. Now it's all "cloud hosted", "contact our sales team" and "dynamic subscription prices, tailored to your needs". Still it's a fantastic pieces of software once you manage to buy it.

For what it's worth I seem to recall base licenses started at roughly $3500 per user for the desktop version of their software last time they had a price list.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the perks of Rails is that Ruby itself makes it more compelling. When you need to get to something that the framework doesn’t expose, Ruby makes it easy to get to it without having to rewrite the framework, extend a class and replace it in multiple places or fork it just to use your modification. This applies to the entire gem ecosystem too. Over the years this ability has saved me numerous headaches with only…

Ruby is my least favorite part of Rails by far. The lack of type checking makes every single gem and rails update extremely dangerous in ways that are incredibly difficult to predict. For example the redis gem updated to return an int from exists() instead of a bool like it did before. This doesn’t raise any exceptions because all ints work in if statements. They just always return true. Silently breaking all of the…

The type checking argument comes up in every language discussion and IMO it’s not worth it. Some people love static typing and swear by it as you clearly do here. Others do not find static typing helpful and manage to do well in environments without it.

Your critique here isn’t even a critique of Ruby in these use cases, it’s a critique of any dynamically typed language.

The Ruby functionality I mentioned could easily bail you out in this situation by allowing you to monkey patch the redis gem to restore the old functionality until you were ready to get around to fixing it in your codebase or until you determined that the other dependent gems had been updated.

If anything, this is a great example of exactly my point about the flexibility of Ruby.

Re: Rails is better low code than low code

#200
Great software works well when it enables people to do things they could not before. Low code works well when the use case is isolated to something where you can focus on simplifying or putting training wheels on writing logic or configurations. When things get complex you end up with what amounts to Xcode or Visual Studio - something that clearly does help professional go faster.

When you try to replace an entire language and multiple libraries with visual editor, you end up with something really complex, and often beyond your user's abilities to learn with the limited time/attention they have.

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