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Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

nianticlabs.com

191–200 of 365 posts

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#191
post #20

This is pretty cool, but I feel as a pokehunter (Pokemon Go player), I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor. How? They consistently incentivize you to scan pokestops (physical locations) through "research tasks" and give you some useful items as rewards. The effort is usually much more significant than what you get in return, so I have stopped doing it. It's…

“If you're not paying for the product, you are the product”

(I realize you can pay, but are not required to)

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarcastically, no one should. Unsarcastically, a lot of people believe user data belongs to users, and that they should have a say in how it's used. Here, I think the point is that Niantic decided they could use the data this way and weren't transparent about it until it was already done. I'm sure I would be in the minority, but I would never have played - or never have done certain things like the research tasks - h…

> Unsarcastically, a lot of people believe user data belongs to users, and that they should have a say in how it's used I can understand that people believe this, but why do they do? Nothing in our society operates in a way that might imply this.

> Nothing in our society operates in a way that might imply this.

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#193
We do this at [name redacted as this was a joke].

When users scan their barcode, the preview window is zoomed in so users think its mostly barcode. We actually get quite a bit more background noise typically of a fridge, supermarket aisle, pantry etc. but it is sent across to us, stored, and trained on.

Within the next year we will have a pretty good idea of the average pantry, fridge, supermarket aisle. Who knows what is next

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#194
post #20

This is pretty cool, but I feel as a pokehunter (Pokemon Go player), I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor. How? They consistently incentivize you to scan pokestops (physical locations) through "research tasks" and give you some useful items as rewards. The effort is usually much more significant than what you get in return, so I have stopped doing it. It's…

> I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor You were playing a game without paying for it. How did you imagine they were making money without pimping your data?

> You were playing a game without paying for it.

I CALL BS. We paid ALL THE TIME! We pay even item's capacity so much they need to increase the limit recently[1].

Ref:

[1] https://www.facebook.com/PokemonGO/posts/1102918761192160

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is totally unfair, every niantic player should have access to all the stuff because they collectively made it I don't understand this perspective. While all players may have collectively made this model possible, no individual player could make a model like it based on their contributions alone. Since no single player could replicate this outcome based on only their data, does it not imply that there's value…

[flagged]

> I don't think this is very difficult to sort out: people feel entitled to the products of their labor.

What labor, though? They took a few pictures and videos (hell, they probably still have a copy of them, so giving a copy to Niantic is essentially free), and were generally compensated for doing that (through in-game rewards, but compensated nonetheless).

The "labor" that transformed the many players' many bits of data was done by Niantic, and thus I would argue that Niantic is the rightful beneficiary of any value that could not be generated by any individual player. To my earlier point, every player could retain a copy of every photo/video they submitted to Niantic, and still be unable to produce this model from it.

> This is comparing apples and oranges: presumably the consumer didn't do anything to produce the vegetable. Hell if anything, under this analogy niantic would owe users a portion of their profits.

The players are also compensated for their submissions, are they not? It doesn't matter that it's not with "real money", in-game rewards are still compensation.

If you agree that a farmer is not entitled to any (much less all!) of your work output because they contributed to feeding you, you agree that the players are not entitled to the models produced by Niantic.

Maybe I'd accept the argument that a player might be entitled to the model generated by training on _only_ that player's data, but I think we'd agree that would be a pretty worthless model.

The value comes from the work Niantic put in to collate the data and build the model. Someone who contributed a tiny fragment of the training data isn't entitled to any of that added value (much less all of it, as the OP was seeming to demand), just like a farmer isn't entitled to any of your work output (much less all of it!) by contributing a fragment of your caloric intake.

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#196
post #143

I still don't get what LGM is. From what I understood, it isn't actually about any "geospatial" data at all, is it? It is rather about improving some vision models to predict how the backside of a building looks, right? And training data isn't of people walking, but from images they've produced while catching pokemons or something? P.S.: Also, if that's indeed what they mean, I wonder why having google street view da…

The ultimate goal is to use the phone camera to get very accurate mapping and position. They're able to merge images from multiple sources which means they're able to localize an image against their database, at least relatively.

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#197
post #193

We do this at [name redacted as this was a joke]. When users scan their barcode, the preview window is zoomed in so users think its mostly barcode. We actually get quite a bit more background noise typically of a fridge, supermarket aisle, pantry etc. but it is sent across to us, stored, and trained on. Within the next year we will have a pretty good idea of the average pantry, fridge, supermarket aisle. Who knows wh…

I’d be interested in how your privacy policy allows this. I can’t find where it mentions photos are stored or used for training purposes…

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#198
post #193

We do this at [name redacted as this was a joke]. When users scan their barcode, the preview window is zoomed in so users think its mostly barcode. We actually get quite a bit more background noise typically of a fridge, supermarket aisle, pantry etc. but it is sent across to us, stored, and trained on. Within the next year we will have a pretty good idea of the average pantry, fridge, supermarket aisle. Who knows wh…

Whoa, that's a p crazy admission. Is this known publicly?

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#199
post #193

We do this at [name redacted as this was a joke]. When users scan their barcode, the preview window is zoomed in so users think its mostly barcode. We actually get quite a bit more background noise typically of a fridge, supermarket aisle, pantry etc. but it is sent across to us, stored, and trained on. Within the next year we will have a pretty good idea of the average pantry, fridge, supermarket aisle. Who knows wh…

[deleted]

Re: Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenuous. They charge for gems and this model is well understood to make a fortune without selling user data at all

> They charge for gems and this model is well understood to make a fortune without selling user data at all I don't understand what this has to do with the topic at hand. Are you suggesting that people can't conceive of the sale of their data because they can conceive of whales amortizing the cost of their video games? That seems contradictory in your estimation of people's ability to grasp the world.

Did you forget your original question?

"How did you imagine they were making money without pimping your data?"

I imagined they were making money in the big obvious way they make money!

I can conceive of them selling user data, but it's not their core business model, and they would operate basically the same if they couldn't sell user data. It was never some obvious thing that they would do this.

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